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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:26 am 
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Tonight, I saw a claim asserted in the same region of the Internet, quite out of the blue, that my friend and colleague Louis Midgley, who served a youthful mission in New Zealand and then returned there decades later with his wife to direct the LDS Institute of Religion in Auckland, must surely have disdained the brown skinned Maori among whom he served and must have held them in arrogant contempt.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... maori.html

Is this Peterson’s way of bypassing the documentation here of Midgley’s stunning lack of character, on exhibit constantly in his SeN comments?

Midgley uniformly defames and personally attacks anyone he considers not on his “side.” Peterson is responsible for allowing Midgley’s behavior to continue on his Patheos site.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:25 pm 
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I asked a question of Dr. Midgley on that Maori thread. Hope I don't get booted off SeN.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:07 pm 
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As I have been studying Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, Or, How You Will, for an essay I think is important for messageboards of folks who feel lost after Mormonism, I have found a few ditties that most graciously apply to two important posters on Sic et Non. Sorry Kiwi57, there is no room on the bus for you, you have to climb up on top and bear with the wind. Keep yer mouth shut or bugs will plat on your teeth.

Malvolio has arrived at the room where Sir Toby Belch, the Clown and Marie are staying up let making noise (like they do in the comments at Sic et Non). Malvolio intones loudly (he speaks for posters here the exact sentiment to impart to Lou Midgley and Dan Peterson) "My masters are you mad?...Have you no wit, manners, or honesty, but to gabble like tinkers...is there no respect of place, persons, nor time in you?" (2. 3. 81-85)


For Lou Midgley, Marie says to Toby and Andrew "Observe him for the love of mockery; for I know [his posting on Sic et Non comments] will make a contemplative idiot of him." And "The man is tainted in's wits." (3. 4. 11)

I find so much in Shakespeare apropos as I study that fit so well with Dan and Lou's excellent adventure over at Sic et Non. I may as well use it eh?

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:27 pm 
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moksha wrote:
I asked a question of Dr. Midgley on that Maori thread. Hope I don't get booted off SeN.


Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod -> Moksha • 3 hours ago • edited

You're welcome here. It's certainly a more diverse, good humored, and substantive place, and I can understand why you would want to come.

But I ask you to please not bring over here the personal hostilities and obsessions that dominate the place from which you're coming.


Oh, no need for that Mr. Peterson! You do a fine job of obsessively following this board, commenting obsessively about this board on your blog, and creating as much hostility as possible between the two! It's quite psychologically fascinating.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Quote:
Tonight, I saw a claim asserted in the same region of the Internet, quite out of the blue, that my friend and colleague Louis Midgley, who served a youthful mission in New Zealand and then returned there decades later with his wife to direct the LDS Institute of Religion in Auckland, must surely have disdained the brown skinned Maori among whom he served and must have held them in arrogant contempt.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... maori.html

Is this Peterson’s way of bypassing the documentation here of Midgley’s stunning lack of character, on exhibit constantly in his SeN comments?

Midgley uniformly defames and personally attacks anyone he considers not on his “side.” Peterson is responsible for allowing Midgley’s behavior to continue on his Patheos site.



Just like Dan said I read the articles by Midgley, I didn't see anything blatantly racist. Especially they type of stuff I see out of they typical self assured Mormon elderly male would say. Somewhere along the way in his writings or a blog comment he did say something about Maori being "Nephite" which is a load of BS that was only used to make his mission easier and make him feel more important. So at least he has that one redeeming quality.

Overall it is quite fascinating on what doing Mormon apologetics can do do a persons judgement of what is right or wrong. Or maybe he thinks the ends justify the means, and that he feels that his bad actions defend what he sees as a good purpose. I really don't think Midgley matured much past his early mission emotionally or morally.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Dr. LOD wrote:
Somewhere along the way in his writings or a blog comment he did say something about Maori being "Nephite" which is a load of BS that was only used to make his mission easier and make him feel more important

Are you sure about that? I took one for the team and reviewed one of his essays here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50452&p=1157313

Me wrote:
It goes something like this: According to Midgley, Newton claims that the Maori Mormons have long believed themselves to be remnants of the Lamanites and the Book of Mormon is "their book". But "DNA evidence" has forced the Mopologists to invent the Limited Geography Theory, which has been officially adopted by the Church, and so the credibility of the Maori's myth about themselves erodes..Migdley counters two parts of this alleged claim. First, he contends that the Moari don't view themselves as literal remnants of the Lamanites

Mr. Midgley wrote:
The Book of Mormon was read by the older Māori I knew in 1950–1952 as “their story” in the sense that it was a tribal history whose  narrative was very much like their own

Remember, the apologists first serve the Limited Geography Theory.

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FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:53 pm 
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The attempts to resuscitate Midgley's reputation are embarrassing. You can't point to his colonialist exercises in New Zealand as an excuse for the truly horrific ways that he's treated people online. That seems like straight-up colonialist exploitation: "My horrible behavior is okay, because, hey: I was really nice to these brown people in New Zealand!"

Louis MIdlgey is one of the most singularly evil, awful, most sadistic people that Mormonism has ever produced.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:01 am 
God

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Midgley:

Quote:
Some of the most valuable things go on out of the view of people bent on quarreling with each other. We each prosper when we seek the good in others, and hence also seek to bless the lives of others.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4638860873

Unless, of course, they are, for example, jcwo, and have committed the crime of disagreeing with midgley:

Quote:
jcwo.... was clearly venting his hostility to what has to be his former faith. Now he has explained that he did this to avoid "real world repercussions." This seems to be his way of wanting not to have his clients, employer, Bishop or Stake President, or husband or wife, or family members know his real opinions, since doing so would change things. To do this is clearly to lack both courage and probity, especially given that he blasts away at his former faith under a false name. It seems obvious that one who comes to no longer have faith in God, and who is paid with tithing funds ought to immediately resign and find different employment. Or they simply lack even a semblance of courage and probity.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/danp ... 4636475822

Every word of that ugly accusation is speculation. Midgley has speculated in a similarly disgusting manner about many, many posters. Midgley seeks no good in anyone whom he perceives to be, in his childish, black and white definition, not on his “side.”

As an aside, in my own experiences in the academic world, I have never seen such a bizarrely immature person granted such freedom as Midgley has on Peterson’s blog. Oh sure, eccentrics abound, and they have been well-represented in my field. I recall an emeritus professor, still seen frequently on campus but seemingly out of the academic exchange who slept through nine tenths of every presentation, always rousing himself at the end to ask an extremely penetrating question, while brushing the ever-present crumbs off his shirt front. (His Nobel prize was awarded a year or two later.) Eccentricities like that got innumerable eyerolls, but while the human being behind the unique brain might ignore social niceties, they were never thought intolerable, because they never took delight in being ugly and mean-spirited, as the ignominious Midgley obviously does.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:40 am 
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Me wrote:
It goes something like this: According to Midgley, Newton claims that the Maori Mormons have long believed themselves to be remnants of the Lamanites and the Book of Mormon is "their book". But "DNA evidence" has forced the Mopologists to invent the Limited Geography Theory, which has been officially adopted by the Church, and so the credibility of the Maori's myth about themselves erodes..Migdley counters two parts of this alleged claim. First, he contends that the Moari don't view themselves as literal remnants of the Lamanites


Mr. Midgley wrote:
The Book of Mormon was read by the older Māori I knew in 1950–1952 as “their story” in the sense that it was a tribal history whose  narrative was very much like their own


Remember, the apologists first serve the Limited Geography Theory.[/quote]

Like I said in the post here and on SEN, I don't believe he wasn't being overtly racist. I don't hold a sincerely held belief of Laminate origins as such, at least to the individual. They were taught institutionalized racism by their church. So Midgley in this case gets a pass on this one because on a whole he actually is better on this particular subject than the average church member over the age of sixty five.

On the Limited Geography Theory. I am aware that they are all about that. I read the Sorensen books when I was twelve years old, after my parents took one of those trips with Dr. Sorensen. I also have a degree in genetics.

The funny part about at least what Peterson and Midgley have shared about how the LGT and DNA interrelate. First they also believe that ALL native people of the western hemisphere have DNA from a Book of Mormon group, every single tribe. Now they base this off one unscientific unsupported claim by Ugo Perego where he basically he can't rule out this possibility. What Perego does not go into is what the probability of this happening, which is almost zero. But what this one comment lets the mopologists do is believe in the LGT, as well as not throwing out all the times in LDS cannon where scripture and prophets say who the Lamanites are.

Now as a Native American I am pissed that the church has used my people and their culture as a faith promoting mascot and prop. Then when it becomes inconvenient to do that they pretend it didn't happen. The churches foundation isn't revelation it is cultural appropriation.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:42 am 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Louis MIdlgey is one of the most singularly evil, awful, most sadistic people that Mormonism has ever produced.

Oh geez. I don't get much into these apologetic battles with Peterson, Midgley, kiwi and others. I mean they say stupid stuff sure. but this is just silly hyperbole. Midgley's probably a nice enough fellow...the kind who might drop off his extra tomatoes, cucumbers, and zucchinis to his neighbor. I imagine he's the type who loves his grandkids, great grandkids and great great grandkids. Might even regale them with silly anecdotes and stories, as he spreads his version of love amongst them. I"m not saying he's likely all that great, but it's not as if he lead a bunch of fellow church goers to slaughter unarmed people under the guise of leading them to safety. he's a grouchy old guy who sincerely thinks the attacks against his religion and fellow religionists are uncalled for, and thinks going on the offensive is the best way to defend. He may even be a bit grouchy, mean, selfish, and foolish. but I don't think that equates to some purely evil person.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:59 pm 
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No not pure evil, pure imbecile. A Ph.D imbecile. An arrogant serving self important person who can do no wrong because he is blinded by the light he is supposed to be upholding. His flashlight is pointed back onto his own eyes blinding him to his own appearance to the world which may in many cases be their only look at what Mormonism is like. The man is an embarrassment beyond description. Were I still an apologist, I personally would have told him to get off the boards and shut up. Be that as it may, I wish him the very best in figuring out how to actually becoming loving as his Savior is at least said to have been.

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
moksha wrote:
I asked a question of Dr. Midgley on that Maori thread. Hope I don't get booted off SeN.


Quote:
DanielPeterson Mod -> Moksha • 3 hours ago • edited

You're welcome here. It's certainly a more diverse, good humored, and substantive place, and I can understand why you would want to come.

But I ask you to please not bring over here the personal hostilities and obsessions that dominate the place from which you're coming.

Oh, no need for that Mr. Peterson! You do a fine job of obsessively following this board, commenting obsessively about this board on your blog, and creating as much hostility as possible between the two! It's quite psychologically fascinating.

- Doc

I figure Dr. Peterson read of my worry on this forum and was graciously trying to allay my apprehension. I appreciate that I received only 1 down vote and 5 upvotes for my first post on Sic et Non. I liked that diverse and good-humored description, although that substantive stuff sounds daunting.

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Dr. LOD wrote:
Like I said in the post here and on SEN, I don't believe he wasn't being overtly racist.

Sure, I agree.

Dr. LOD wrote:
I read the Sorensen books when I was twelve years old, after my parents took one of those trips with Dr. Sorensen.

Is Mr. Midgley and the blog proprietor aware of this?

_________________
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:15 pm 
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Dr Moore wrote:
Exactly, Lemmie.

Where exactly did Jesus give his followers the right to judge others? Where exactly did he authorize vigilantism?


3 Nephi when he showed up and scorched, crushed, pounded, and annihilated the majority of the civilization (he really couldn't think of any other way to make a grand pooh pah entrance, I mean give him a break, it's not like he is omniscient yet like his dad claimed to be, he was a rather beginner sorta God at this point, so he was justa flexin those "God muscles" of power to see how well they worked. eh, he did O.K., he took out about 3/4ths of em) before he came a floatin down to share band aids with those who survived the onslaught. From his New Testament teachings, we can link them to 3 Nephi because, well, that's what apologists do, take scripture out of context, historical or otherwise. Jesus said his followers would do greater works than he did, so, we can expect with their billions of bucks, Mormonism is gonna soon own nukes, and, well, then teach the value of obedience or burn in the Lord's name... You only single anointed of God can believe anything you want to, but remember, WE, the 2nd anointed have the button...

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Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:46 am 
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Gadianton wrote:
Dr. LOD wrote:
Like I said in the post here and on SEN, I don't believe he wasn't being overtly racist.

Sure, I agree.

Dr. LOD wrote:
I read the Sorensen books when I was twelve years old, after my parents took one of those trips with Dr. Sorensen.

Is Mr. Midgley and the blog proprietor aware of this?

I’m sure they are thinking about it. And if they actually go and even ask Sorensen about they will just prove what kind of people they really are.

I regularly discussed many of my church concerns with someone in a position who could cause problems for the mopologists, on multiple levels.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:53 am 
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Playing devil's advocate for a moment, Dr. LOD, but this person in a position of power, isn't this person first and foremost committed to the Church's pocket book? Are you sure this person in the end, once it were understood that you were done, wouldn't side with Midgley? After all, Midgley's "intellectual history" of Grant Palmer came at the behest of the Brethren.

Wouldn't this person in the position you speak of, be partial to defenders of the faith?

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FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 am 
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Quote:
Louis Midgley Exiled • 8 hours ago • edited

Self-Exiled: Would you please take a moment and indicate whether I have responded adequately to the rash of false claims that I am angry and filed with spite, and so forth? I would like to have these false claims expunged.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 4714896678


:rolleyes: No chance, Midgley. Your mean-spirited, small-minded tone is rabid and well established.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:40 am 
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Quote:
L ouis Midgley • 2 days ago • edited

I trust that cultural Mormon critics of the faith of the Saints who post on sic et non will have noticed that I am not at all impressed with the coherence of some of their speculation. If I do not represent a stone in their already woobly boot, then they should know that perhaps dozen of others who enjoy the interesting, enlightening, and important things about which Professor Peterson blogs, and the solid information he makes available, are likely to be either bored or annoyed with certain unfounded speculation they tend to emit. I have in mind the primary meaning of emit.

http://disq.us/p/25xss37



This just cracks me up. Midgley would have been grounded for his entire childhood if he grew up in any of my family’s homes. His filthy mouth, filthy mind and who knows what additional filthiness he keeps deep in his soul were simply not acceptable behaviors for children. The fact that he’s an adult doing this is just gross.

Quote:
Louis Midgley Billy Shears 11 hours ago

i am confident that Dan, much like the rest of us, would prefer that critics be civil, rational, informed, and respectful, and perhaps even appropriately transparent. However, he tends to overlook the absence of all of these obvious virtues.

He will, however give those the boot who insist on launching personal insults.

He is cautious about those who float over from a certain despicable message board where his own Malevolent Staker(s) hang out.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 4714685576


:lol: :lol: :lol: Is it possible for a human being to totally lack self-awareness?


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:34 am 
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Quote:
Louis Midgley speaking to Louis Midgley a day ago

I should have added that i see myself as a soldier in a huge army, and not as the general who knows exactly how to storm hostile beaches. "I'll go where you want me to go dear Lord," i once liked to sing, especially if it is New Zealand, I would add. Then I would sing "I'll do what you want me to do dear Lord," which I hope will be first in New Zealand, and later at Brigham Young University. I just took what being drafted into the US Army brought, although I loved being able to be assigned to duty in Germany, since that opened the way for my wife and I to be the first couples sealed in this dispensation in Europe.

I know for a fact that I have both lived a charmed life, and that only God can save us, including from our own pride, arrogance and stupidity, in addition to liberating us from all forms of death.


I'm not sure the Lord saved that particular Soldier from his own pride, arrogance, and stupidity.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:03 am 
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I would have assumed that a Malevolent Staker was a nemesis dreaded by vampires, but by now I've learned enough Mormon lingo to know that it is simply an organized group of Malevolent Warders.


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 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:42 am 
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Physics Guy wrote:
I would have assumed that a Malevolent Staker was a nemesis dreaded by vampires, but by now I've learned enough Mormon lingo to know that it is simply an organized group of Malevolent Warders.

:lol:


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