It is currently Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:08 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:28 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:48 pm
Posts: 2694
Quote:
Dr. LOD said:

Thanks guys, Midgley is really a sorry excuse for a person much less a “Saint” like he claims to be. The only consolation is soon he will be either blabbering in a nursing home, or passed away. He has been a useful idiot for for past church leadership as a polemic apologist. But even that support is getting thinner and thinner. I have a Sunday dinner with a GA. This certainly will be discussed. 

Yes on Thursday morning a cousin of mine was found at home dead. She has had some health problems as well as mental health struggles. Recently I learned how she was molested by her father. And also the multiple times over the past forty years church leaders did nothing when they could have. In addition there are at least five more underage girls who were victimized.

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry your cousin had to go through what she did. One wonders if the mental health issues were a direct result of the molestation and the subsequent deaf ears approach the church employed to her cries for help. I feel sorry for the other victims too. This scenario happens all too often.

_________________
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:32 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19107
Dr. LOD,

I’m genuinely moved by you sharing your cousin’s hardships and unfortunate death. I feel unnerved at the thought of having to experience something like that with a child or family member. What you’ve done, to empathetically attend al-anon and AA meetings is very important, and goes a long, long way toward building understanding regarding a host of issues that drive people toward addiction and coping with life through escapism.

To suggest, like that raving lunatic did, that attending church is the solution to the mental and emotional turmoil that drives compulsory behavior is just so obtuse, emotionally regressed, and frankly kind of hateful.

Mr. Peterson allowing The Midge a public forum to indulge in his viciousness is crushing the Church’s reputation. How BYU and the Church continue giving those two a platform for their rage campaigns is mystifying.

BYU professors. Priesthood holders. Public faces of the Mormon church.

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:41 am 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 9020
Dr LOD wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
I don’t think he’s wrong. If he was, then midgley would have taken a second to recognize that Dr VelhoBurrinho mentioned losing a cousin two days ago to such a struggle. I don’t post on SeN, so I can’t comment, but my heart goes out to him, and I hope someone can acknowledge his comment and offer some kindness.

Midgley’s unChristlike attitude toward anyone outside his church or who has a different opinion than him is well-established. Midgley is an unkind, mean-spirited bully, and he uses the Mormon church as an excuse to continue behaving this way. His daughter may help him out with his bookkeeping but I would hope she’s not okay with his angry contempt for all those humans he considers less than himself. His name-calling alone (“little old donkey” instead of the commenter’s given avatar name is only one example) would get him thrown out of my University.

Thanks guys, Midgley is really a sorry excuse for a person much less a “Saint” like he claims to be. The only consolation is soon he will be either blabbering in a nursing home, or passed away. He has been a useful idiot for for past church leadership as a polemic apologist. But even that support is getting thinner and thinner. I have a Sunday dinner with a GA. This certainly will be discussed.

Yes on Thursday morning a cousin of mine was found at home dead. She has had some health problems as well as mental health struggles. Recently I learned how she was molested by her father. And also the multiple times over the past forty years church leaders did nothing when they could have. In addition there are at least five more underage girls who were victimized.

I’m so sorry hear that. And shame on the LDS church leaders, who, yet again, let the abuse go on when they could have stopped it. What an intolerable burden to have to bear. My heart goes out to you and your family.

I’m glad you will have an opportunity to speak to someone about this. There are way too many people like midgley blaming mental health and addiction issues on lack of church attendance, without recognizing the possibility that issues within the LDS church could be part of the underlying cause.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:22 pm 
Nursery

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:24 am
Posts: 24
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Dr. LOD,

I’m genuinely moved by you sharing your cousin’s hardships and unfortunate death. I feel unnerved at the thought of having to experience something like that with a child or family member. What you’ve done, to empathetically attend al-anon and AA meetings is very important, and goes a long, long way toward building understanding regarding a host of issues that drive people toward addiction and coping with life through escapism.

To suggest, like that raving lunatic did, that attending church is the solution to the mental and emotional turmoil that drives compulsory behavior is just so obtuse, emotionally regressed, and frankly kind of hateful.

Mr. Peterson allowing The Midge a public forum to indulge in his viciousness is crushing the Church’s reputation. How BYU and the Church continue giving those two a platform for their rage campaigns is mystifying.

BYU professors. Priesthood holders. Public faces of the Mormon church.

- Doc


Thanks,
On Thursday shortly after finding out about the death of my cousin. I had a child come into clinic whom obviously had some severe non-accidental injuries, along with a BS story from a parent. As of now he is still in a ICU, and the adult who injured him is in jail.

I was feeling kind of raw and pissed at the time. And I actually commend Dan for his post and discussion so I felt a little more open with my first post. Then Midge in his emotional immaturity went and dumped on the whole post. I went with the being open and vulnerable angle, to see what reaction he would have. Instead he dug into his Mormon Dannite superhero persona. I would like to think it is related to his old age. But reading his so called scholarly work I really think what we see on SEN is really him.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:05 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 19107
I think the thing that mystifies me is the notion, by Dr. Peterson, that religion is a cure for substance abuse. AA, NA, OA, and others have spectacular recidivism rates estimated at over 90%.

Ok, so it's not faith that's the cure, nor a prescribed set of rites that must be practiced as found within recovery groups. It's a centralized religion or a faith based around religious clergy that can guide one's path! If that's the case then why would any member of a religion where it's practiced fall into addiction in the first place? Millions of faithful types have become sex, drug, food, work, and alcohol addicts. Why didn't religion keep them from going astray?

Ok. So perhaps it boils down to choices coupled with professional help. But our resident BYU professor, priesthood holder, and victim himself of addict-like behavior plants a flag in the ground along with that vicious little troll he let's post on his blog, and declares, "There's nothing like the old timey religion to cure what ails ya!"

eta: It should be noted that Mr. Peterson, feverishly following this thread decided to offer a few kind words to Dr. LOD only after noticing Lemmie's post and her saying this:

Lemmie wrote:
I don’t post on SeN, so I can’t comment, but my heart goes out to him, and I hope someone can acknowledge his comment and offer some kindness..

- Doc

_________________
http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:38 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am
Posts: 5698
Location: Firmly on this earth
I wish the very best for you and your family at this time also Dr. LOD......

_________________
Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:10 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:44 am
Posts: 7459
Location: Cassius University
Boy,this is something else:

Louis Midgley wrote:
I very much appreciate Dan 's loving remarks about his father, and especially about his participation in the liberation of the death camp at Mauthausen on the Donau. My wife and I have visited that terrible place where 320,000 were sent up the stack. My wife refused to visit Poland because she knew that we would visit Auschwitz, where the numbers that went up the stack were in the millions. But the Midgleys, with friends and family, have been to Mauthausen a half dozen or more times. I somehow feel it a duty to visit that terrible place, as well as a tiny empty place in Heidelberg where the Jews once worshipped.

And Misha, my dear Russian secular Jewish friend, once made it possible for me and my granddaughter to visit Theresienstadt, which I very much appreciated. And later Misha also took a group of us to the place where that Swedish diplomat who gave Hungarian Jews diplomatic passports so they could escape to Sweden is memorialized. The memorial is a very large round stone with all the names of those he saved inscribed on it. That very honorable fellow was killed by the Russians for his good deeds.

When Dan mentions the employment that his father's construction company provided for family and many others, and still does, it reminded me of my own father's engineering company, which my brother and brother-in-law joined and enhanced as Midgley-Huber, which now has offices in Salt Lake City and Boise, Idaho. But my father never once urged me to find my way in his rather lucrative family business. He was, instead, pleased about the academic path I sought.

I am confident that Dan's father and his brother are also very pleased with the academic path taken by Dan.


A couple of points are worth making here, I think: first, victims of the Holocaust are referred to here as "numbers that went up the stack?" I don't even know where to begin with that one. You can't make this stuff up.

Second, it does not surprise me in they slightest that Midgley is the product of a "rather lucrative family business"--just like Dr. Peterson. These were both well-off, privileged, white male brats. And they still are, to this day.

This tidbit, from Peterson's main entry, memorializing his late father, was striking:

DCP wrote:
It [i.e., his father's construction business] provided employment for a fairly large number of men (most of them Mexican-Americans), some of whom became almost extended family for me.


DCP has posted--quite literally--tens of thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of blog posts, comments, and so forth. Have you ever heard--even once--of him hanging out with a Latinx person--let alone, treating a Mexican-American like an "extended family" member? Were Juan, Jorge, and Armando invited to the last Interpreter party? What about the last Smithmas party? (Or are they not invited because they're Catholic?) Perhaps the lone time I've ever seen him even describe "contact" or interaction with a Latin American person was when he got caught ogling Jennifer Lopez's rear-end on Facebook. I'm calling BS on this particular claim.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am
Posts: 5698
Location: Firmly on this earth
Let us remember Peterson has to assure that he is seen as the all around cultural, political, economical, intellectual, sabbatical, suaveical, jovialical, saneical, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saintical, baldingical, humorical, travelerical, holyical, psychological, well traveledical, apologetical, Islamical, Mormonical, renaissance man to ever grace the earth... He is trying to impress God, and quite frankly its farcical.

_________________
Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:54 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 20847
Location: Koloburbia
Philo Sofee wrote:
Let us remember Peterson has to assure that he is seen as the all around cultural, political, economical, intellectual, sabbatical, suaveical, jovialical, saneical, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saintical, baldingical, humorical, travelerical, holyical, psychological, well traveledical, apologetical, Islamical, Mormonical, renaissance man to ever grace the earth... He is trying to impress God, and quite frankly its farcical.

I've been impressed with Dr. Peterson and his accomplishments. He is a very well rounded individual.

Dr. Peterson is the other that Jesus asked us to love.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:46 am 
God

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am
Posts: 9016
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Boy,this is something else:

Louis Midgley wrote:
I very much appreciate Dan 's loving remarks about his father, and especially about his participation in the liberation of the death camp at Mauthausen on the Donau. My wife and I have visited that terrible place where 320,000 were sent up the stack. My wife refused to visit Poland because she knew that we would visit Auschwitz, where the numbers that went up the stack were in the millions. But the Midgleys, with friends and family, have been to Mauthausen a half dozen or more times. I somehow feel it a duty to visit that terrible place, as well as a tiny empty place in Heidelberg where the Jews once worshipped.

And Misha, my dear Russian secular Jewish friend, once made it possible for me and my granddaughter to visit Theresienstadt, which I very much appreciated. And later Misha also took a group of us to the place where that Swedish diplomat who gave Hungarian Jews diplomatic passports so they could escape to Sweden is memorialized. The memorial is a very large round stone with all the names of those he saved inscribed on it. That very honorable fellow was killed by the Russians for his good deeds.

When Dan mentions the employment that his father's construction company provided for family and many others, and still does, it reminded me of my own father's engineering company, which my brother and brother-in-law joined and enhanced as Midgley-Huber, which now has offices in Salt Lake City and Boise, Idaho. But my father never once urged me to find my way in his rather lucrative family business. He was, instead, pleased about the academic path I sought.

I am confident that Dan's father and his brother are also very pleased with the academic path taken by Dan.


A couple of points are worth making here, I think: first, victims of the Holocaust are referred to here as "numbers that went up the stack?" I don't even know where to begin with that one. You can't make this stuff up.

Wikipedia's description of that process is by the time the first American troops arrived at the complex of camps, most of the SS guards had fled, the prisoners had mostly liberated themselves, and the few SS that remained simply surrendered.
Quote:
By the time of its liberation, most of the SS-men of Mauthausen had already fled; around 30 who remained were killed by the prisoners,[100] and a similar number were killed in Gusen II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauthause ... r_heritage

Quote:
As a result of these factors, the exact death toll of the entire system of Mauthausen and its subcamps varies considerably from source to source. Various scholars place it at between 122,766[note 9] and 320,000,[67] with other numbers also frequently quoted being 200,000[85] and "over 150,000".[86] Various historians place the total death toll in the four main camps of Mauthausen, Gusen I, Gusen II and Gusen III at between 55,000[41] and 60,000.[87][note 10] In addition, during the first month after the liberation additional 1,042 prisoners died in American field hospitals.[88]

Out of approximately 320,000 prisoners who were incarcerated in various subcamps of Mauthausen throughout the war, only approximately 80,000 survived,[89] including between 20,487[88] and 21,386[90][note 11] in Gusen I, II and III.

_________________
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:56 pm 
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:44 am
Posts: 7459
Location: Cassius University
Louis Midgley wrote:
Allen:
This is exactly gemli's narrow world. At one point he announced that Dan's blog was not the place for those he calls "Mormons" to talk about family and fellow Latter-day Saints, but to demonstrate how "Mormonism" mangles reality. He might be a nice fellow who does not kill his neighbor's dogs for fun, and does not rob banks or even be on drugs. So he is not a menace to himself and his neighbors. But that is about the best one can say about his dogmatic religion.

_________________
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:04 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 9020
Quote:
Louis Midgley gemli a day ago

How would gemli know? He boasts of not knowing a thing about any manifestation of Christian faith, including even that version he was indoctrinated with by nice Nuns at the school his parents sent him to tame his wigglies and avoided other much less savory public education in New Orleans.


Midgley is a mannerless pig. The fact that Peterson lets midgley make up stuff like this to try to taunt another poster is reprehensible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:22 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 9020
Quote:
Louis Midgley gemli a day ago

And gemli is also able to dress himself, and shower when necessary, as he posts his atheist dogmatic religion. But gemli has never managed to do any actual science. ....

What the HELL is the point of comments like this? If midgley is mentally impaired, why doesn’t Peterson reach out to his daughter or someone for help?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:28 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 8986
Location: On walkabout
Someone should really start a blog called “____ Lou Says.”

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:47 pm 
Founder & Visionary
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 13763
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Lemmie wrote:
If midgley is mentally impaired, why doesn’t Peterson reach out to his daughter or someone for help?

Perhaps he has.

_________________
"Belief is driven by psychology, not intelligence."

--Analytics, 09-11-2019


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:04 pm 
Hermit
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 9075
Location: Cave
Res Ipsa wrote:
Someone should really start a blog called “____ Lou Says.”


Someone has, it's called Sic et Non. I'm pretty sure 90% of the traffic bypass the OP and head straight for the comments to see what Mr. Lou says next.

_________________
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:07 pm 
Hermit
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 9075
Location: Cave
Quote:
Perhaps he has.


I don't think so. Unfortunately, I've had the privilege of dealing with dementia etc., and that's not what this is.

(hey Kiwi, you could say in comments over there, that I've lived with myself my whole life or, 'indeed he does so every day at the sty!' lol! take these stones and turn them to bread?)

_________________
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:46 pm 
Founder & Visionary
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Posts: 13763
Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
Gadianton wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Someone should really start a blog called “____ Lou Says.”

Someone has, it's called Sic et Non.

LOL!

Quote:
I'm pretty sure 90% of the traffic bypass the OP and head straight for the comments to see what Mr. Lou says next.

Ha! You've got me, for one, dead to rights. I'll scan the topics to see which entry has the most comments, then click on it and go straight to the comments, exactly as you described.

I guess I'm not the only one.

_________________
"Belief is driven by psychology, not intelligence."

--Analytics, 09-11-2019


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:39 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:04 am
Posts: 5698
Location: Firmly on this earth
Quote:
Someone has, it's called Sic et Non. I'm pretty sure 90% of the traffic bypass the OP and head straight for the comments to see what Mr. Lou says next.

That's what I do! Peterson has become a bore, Midgley? Oh he is the Gospel in action, the intellectual to look up to, the gentleman to bow down to, and the moron insulting dweeb to read.....I have never, and I mean NEVER see this kind of thing in apologetics until just a few years ago. This is just amazing at how juvenile, ill-considered, and mean-spirited Sic et Non and it's comments have become. I mean JUST WOW! Jesus better hurry and return before Midgley destroys His church and there is nothing to come back for, well, except to clean up his own church! :biggrin:

What a testimony strengthener these guys are for me to have STOPPED being an apologist!!! Who would want to possibly be associated with such priggish, insulting things?

_________________
Is Midgely serious? Peterson's blog is a patty-cake, surface only, all too frequently plagiarized bit of ephemeral nonsense. Why would anyone suppose avatars must be real? Midgley has lost his tiny little mind. Maybe he can go over to never-neverland and harass Peter Pan for not really knowing how to fly. -Lemmie-


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:55 pm 
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 pm
Posts: 288
Location: HSB 201
Lavina Fielding Anderson lost her petition to re-join the church, despite having remained active and faithful in the decades since her excommunication and despite the support of her bishop and stake president. She was one of the so-called September Six.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/09 ... municated/

In 1993, when she was being excommunicated, I was busy studying at BYU. I recall hearing grumblings about the church punishing wayward intellectuals. There was no Internet, and I subscribed to no newspapers. As a full time student, the details eluded me.

Over this past weekend, I read Anderson's Dialogue article -- the one accusing church leaders of patterned ecclesiastical abuse, which reportedly secured her excommunication.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... uKpOBwcndc

About halfway through, this shows up:

Anderson wrote:
30 September 1981. Louis C. Midgley of BYU's political science department attacks the New Mormon History and historians for a lack of faith. Joined periodically by David Earle Bohn and Gary Novak, he continues his vigorous critique of "objective" history to the present. (Footnote #23)

(Footnote #23). See, as examples, "The Mormon (His)story," (letter to the editor), Sunstone, Feb. 1992 [mailed in Aug. 1992], 9; and "The Acids of Modernity and the Crisis in Mormon Historiography," in Faithful History: Essays on Writing Mormon History, ed. George D. Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1992), 189-226, first published as "The Challenge of Historical Consciousness: Mormon History and the Encounter with Secular Modernity," in By Study and by Faith: Essays in Honor of Hugh W. Nibley on the Occasion of His Eightieth Birthday, eds. John M. Lundquist and Stephen D. Ricks (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book/FARMS, 1990), 2:502-51. The Smith volume includes "Unfounded Claims and Impossible Expectations: A Critique of New Mormon History" (227-63), a revised and expanded revision of "No Higher Ground," Sunstone 8 (May-June 1983): 26-32, "The Burden of Proof," Sunstone 10 (June 1985): 2-3, and "Our Own Agenda," Sunstone 14 (June 1990): 45-49.

Noticing again the date stamp, it hit me. Midgley has been assassinating the characters of perceived enemies for more than 30 years. Prying into Palmer was published in 2003. By that time, Louis was nearly 20 years at the practice! He was already the John Wick of takedowns, masquerading as scholarly book reviews.

Seeing this, I am even more shocked at Dr. Midgley's outrage that I, a nobody in the apologetic conversation, would assess Prying into Palmer as a character assassination. It clearly was. And I am absolutely convinced he meant it to be that way.

What I don't understand is why. By which I mean, why wouldn't dear Louis, having perfected the art form through the 1980's, 1990's, 2000's and well into the 2010's, finally, at long last, proudly embrace my observation as well-earned praise?

I wasn't able to locate articles referenced in the footnote above, but in searching found this from Sunstone, 2004:

Sunstone May 2004 wrote:
Midgley was forcibly escorted from Jerald and Sandra Tanner’s bookstore after he confronted them there, and he recently attended a book signing to publicly challenge Grant Palmer, a retired institute director who has questioned traditional LDS faith claims.

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/issues/132.pdf

On the one hand, Dr. Midgley hides behind the pretense of writing intellectual history. Then shows up at a bookstore signing to heckle and bully?

Not only does the text itself betray Prying into Palmer as a character assassination, but Louis's actions prove the motive definitively.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Rules of Patheos: Midgley appears to violate TOS 10x
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:56 am 
Endowed Chair of Historical Innovation
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:19 pm
Posts: 288
Location: HSB 201
Here in the department of Historical Sciences, our staff has been busy collecting samples for an upcoming monograph, tentatively titled Innovative Techniques in Historical Studies. I submit for peer comment, data collected from the living room of an outside collaborator, under the heading "Plain Vanilla Hypocrisy." The data comprise 2 cases of Kiwi57 scolding Dr. Shades for the evident practice of attempted mind reading, followed by Kiwi57 engaging in 19 evident cases of attempted mind reading. Dr. Shades points out the behavior, and does so without conducting a mind reading.

Exhibit 1: Two comments directed by Kiwi57 to Dr. Shades, exhorting him to abstain from attempts at mind reading.
Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
...
What "theory" is necessary? VB, of all people, has (however unwittingly) provided the facts which relieve Governor Leavitt, at least, from the need to be subjected to your incurably hostile mind-reading.

Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
No. They do not.

All they really do is project the worst thoughts of their own minds onto those whom they are determined to despise.


Exhibit 2: Dr. Shades objects: Kiwi57 indulges in the very practice for which he excoriates others.
Shades notes:
Quote:
Dr. Shades > Kiwi57
Sort of like how you operate?



Exhibit 3: examples from two current topic threads related to Mountain Meadows, here and here.

Notations such as (1), (2) ... (N) were added by me to track specific instances of attempted mind reading.

Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
So (1) you don't care what accusation you run with? You're just (2)tossing up which one is the most spiteful, and then you'll pick that?

Got it.

In the meantime, please support the bolded accusation, above.

(Prediction: since you can't - and (3)you know you can't - you'll try to fob me off with a "witty" quip. Which will only get about 50% of the way there.)


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Did (4)you really think I would fall for such a shady attempt at misdirection?

(5)As you know, that doesn't support the accusation I asked you to support, which was that Governor Leavitt was acting "to protect the church's official narrative, 'cause the preliminary forensic evidence proved the church's story to be false."

(6)You wouldn't know this - and indeed, I never expected you to - but all non-bigots realise that the truth of "the Church's official narrative" does not rest upon the fine details of which victim was killed by what method.

The question before you is to support your speculative reconstruction of Governor Leavitt's motive. You failed, of course.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Yes, and like all non-bigots I knew that you were talking about the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I also knew that, like most non-non-bigots, (7)you were not the slightest bit interested in what actually happened, but (8)were only looking to find a reason to accuse the Church of something.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Your (9)uncritical acceptance of a narrative that supports your prejudices is noted.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Wrong question. Here's the right one: Why did two SLTrib reporters claim, without support, that there was "steady pressure for secrecy" when they knew that claim would reflect badly upon the Church of Jesus Christ?

You see Shades, the question pretty much answers itself, doesn't it?

The fact is that there was steady pressure from the descendants to reinter the remains. The reporters chose to spin that as "steady pressure for secrecy" because it fit a certain ideological view.

Which, as everyone knows, (10)you share.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
1. What law was rewritten?
2. Thank you for demonstrating how instinctively you turn to demagoguery and race-baiting (11)to distract from the discussion at hand.

How hard would it be to (12)admit that there is no support for your assumptions of nefarious motives on the part of Mr Leavitt?


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Shades: What is my "preferred narrative?"

(13)The "Mormonism done it" narrative, of course.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
Also highly reprehensible is the practice, (14)enjoyed by some, of cynically and opportunistically exploiting such events (15)for cheap polemical point-scoring.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Shades
No.

Nor, (16)as you perfectly well know, is it "apologetics for" the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

But (17)you'll try to pretend that it is, of course.

It's what you do.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Dr. Detroit
Yes, Lee wrote a "confession" - mostly of other people's sins - which he delivered to his attorney, William Bishop.

Bishop was to recoup his legal fees by taking ownership of the manuscript and publishing it. Before doing so, he reports that Lee told him to "fix it up" for publication. Since Lee - who was quite literate and proud of his penmanship - had nevertheless chosen to dictate it. Why? Again, we'll never know, but it's much easier to tamper with a document that is not autographic than with one that is. (Note that Lee's scribe is not named.)

Furthermore, a document's use as a "dying declaration" only works if it is given under two conditions: (1) the writer accepts the fact of his imminent death, and (2) we have it in its pristine form, as it came from his pen (or fell from his lips.) The original manuscript is, most inconveniently, no longer available. I doubt that you would like it quite as much if it was. Moreover, it is not at all clear that Lee had resigned himself to his fate when he composed it. He explained that he wrote it, being "forced to resort to the first law of nature, self-protection." In other words, he still hoped to get let off the hook, so he had a clear motive to try to blame others. And of course, he knew perfectly well that certain parties would love to pin the blame upon Brigham. So who better?

The statement, "I know all were acting under the orders and by the command of their Church leaders," so heavily relied upon by you, is simply false.

No such orders were given.

I know (18)you wish they were, but they were not.

Sorry.


Quote:
Kiwi57 > Billy Shears
>> But doing that would be dismissed as exploiting what happened for ideological reasons.

Only if that's what you are doing.

Which is clearly what happens when someone ignores what was actually going on in Cedar City in the period leading up to the massacre, and instead tries to find some way to pin it on Brigham Young. (Yes, (19)I know exactly who you were thinking of when you said "hierarchy.")

it won't work. Brigham didn't do it.


Summary: after twice urging Dr. Shades not to engage in attempted mind reading, Kiwi57 engaged in attempted mind reading 19 times in the same set of related topic threads. This demonstrates with remarkable consistency, Plain Vanilla Hypocrisy.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 478 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fence Sitter, Google [Bot], Philo Sofee and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group