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 Post subject: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy people"
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:30 am 
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I was reading something on the planned LDS temple in Harare, Zimbabwe, and ran across this article, dated late 2018:
Quote:
....Elder Andersen said the significance of the meeting with Vice President Mohadi was to “express to him our desire to help improve Zimbabwe.”

He noted that Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.

“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added.


Before meeting Vice President Mohadi, Elder Andersen briefly met with Hon. Minister Davis Marapira, who expressed gratitude for Elder Andersen’s visit and reiterated the government’s desire to revive the economy, attract investment and drive rural development.
Marapira is the former Deputy Minister of Lands, Agriculture and Rural Resettlement.
 
Elder Andersen said he expected to meet with Zimbabwean President, His Excellency Emmerson Mnangagwa during his visit to Harare, however, the planned visit coincided with a trip by the President to Kenya.

“We wish him well. We are thankful for his attitude and his desire to help this country.  We pray very deeply that he can be successful. We know he’s a believing man, and we pray that he will pray, and that the blessings of Heaven could be upon him, upon his leaders and the people and that there can be progress economically in this country,” said Elder Andersen.

Elder Andersen also shared with Vice President Mohadi news that the Church planned to begin construction of the Harare Temple in late 2019, an edifice that will bring special blessings to the people of Zimbabwe.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.co.zw/articl ... es-support
[bolding added]

"We are not a wealthy people"? Why even say that?


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:53 am 
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The church doesn't want to be caught in the cycle of giving. If you give, then a country expects or at least requests more of the same and the church isn't about giving without receiving more in return. The church does a few clean water projects, then calculates the return on investment in terms of converts obtained and tithing dollars received. Too many water projects would make the enterprise a net loss or an even bigger loss. That would be unacceptable for the bottom line of having continual financial growth.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 am 
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GOD DAMN MOTHER ____ PIECE OF ____ Mormon LEADER, what happened to

https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/New Testament/luke/18.22

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,

30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:59 am 
God

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“We are not a wealthy people.” Said a guy sat on a stock portfolio worth $32 billion and who invested $billions into a Salt Lake City upmarket shopping mall and office/residential complex and who owns outright 2% of Florida.

Does it say whether or not Mr Anderson managed to keep a straight face?

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:13 am 
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I have a question wrote:
“We are not a wealthy people.” Said a guy sat on a stock portfolio worth $32 billion and who invested $billions into a Salt Lake City upmarket shopping mall and office/residential complex and who owns outright 2% of Florida.

Does it say whether or not Mr Anderson managed to keep a straight face?


I'm sure he did have a straight face. You see, chapter 3, verse 6 of Prosperity Gospel Forever says:

Thou shalt use My wealth which I gave unto you as a standard for all to see that they may rejoice in thy Lord. Do not, therefore, trifle thyself with too many projects for the poor as they will always be among us and will sucketh My profits away if thou aren't careful.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:55 am 
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On a warm African evening a few decades ago, my wife and I and selected teenage offspring were driving along the paved road from Harare, Zimbabwe, to the border with South Africa - a trip of some 300 miles as the crow flies. After dark, the road was pretty much deserted with only the very occasional vehicle passing us in the other direction.

Later that night and nearer to the border, we could see small campfires now and then with folks gathered around them ten meters of so off the roadway in the bush. We later learned that this was the way in which many people in rural areas still undertake longer distance travel in Zimbabwe. They walk in the woods near the main roads by day and stop at night to build a fire, eat and rest.

Requiring such people to pay tithing to a Church that claims to represent Jesus Christ, and has the resources mentioned upthread by IHAQ is, to me at least, unconscionable.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:23 pm 
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God to Mormon leaders: "Dig water wells and towers and pipelines-forget about that temple until every person has clean water to drink and live daily".


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:59 pm 
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O God, the Eternal Father, I ask thee in the name of thy Son Jesus Christ to smite that no good bastard apostle Elder Andersen to the ground and send him to hell where he belongs.

The Puerto Ricans suffered at the hands of this lying apostle of Mormonism and now he is about to spread his bad luck on the Africans.

Good God! Hear my prayer! Hear my petition! Smite Andersen with the breath of thy lips and let him rise no more.

Amen.

PS. Please send a few billion (from thy stock portfolio) to help with water development so the Africans can have fresh water to drink. They are thirsty.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:04 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
“We are not a wealthy people.” Said a guy sat on a stock portfolio worth $32 billion and who invested $billions into a Salt Lake City upmarket shopping mall and office/residential complex and who owns outright 2% of Florida.

Does it say whether or not Mr Anderson managed to keep a straight face?


I predict that KARAMA is going to bring the church to its knees. Their days are numbered. All that lying and deceit is going to catch up with the church.

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An original and authentic look at Facsimile No. 3 as never seen before.


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm 
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The GDP of Zimbabwe (16 million people) is 18 billion. The LDS church at 15 million people likely has yearly incomes of around 10 billion.

Not wealthy.

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Last edited by SteelHead on Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:25 pm 
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I stand corrected. Mormon man god and Mormon Bastard jebus might have been misguided when they instructed Stinkley to build us a Mall so all can come and see our greatness.

Shopping malls see tsunami of store closures and falling traffic https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... li=BBnbfcN

Could be Elder Asshole Andersen knows something we mere Morgbots don't

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
He noted that Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.

“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added.

Sounds like a preface for a price tag. Sort of like when a teenage daughter asks you for a wad of cash, you have to negotiate with her by reminding her you are not made of cash before you get down to the nitty gritty of how much she can have.

Has the Church ever helped with infrastructure projects before?

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:13 pm 
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There are tens of thousands of full time missionaries out available to put to good use. Why not use just a fraction of them to work on providing clean water to the people of Africa? This seems like a no brainer...


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:42 pm 
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oliblish wrote:
There are tens of thousands of full time missionaries out available to put to good use. Why not use just a fraction of them to work on providing clean water to the people of Africa? This seems like a no brainer...


https://news.BYU.edu/news/students-buil ... lage-drill

http://www.blacklds.org/634/mormon-huma ... -in-africa

It's not too hard to imagine that a majority of these folks were missionaries...and are now, in a sense, service missionaries. They did their proselyting, now they're doing service making a big difference in the lives of their brothers and sisters in Africa.

Granted, they are a tiny fraction...but oh, what a difference they can make.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:55 pm 
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So I looked at the links in the last post, and found neither of them had any bearing on the OP topic.

In the first link, an article discusses a BYU group mentioned above worked with WHOlives.org, a nonprofit that has only been in existence since 2015. In 2017, its total expenses were about $240,000, with half of that going to salaries, wages, payroll taxes, and pension funds. The article says the drill was created in 2011. The only information about donations is a comment about 2 sources in 2013, U. S. Syncretic and the Shipment family foundation.

So, nothing at all to do with the OP or LDS church finances or wealth, or even missionary work, a side topic.

In the second link, there is this:

Quote:
According to church records, in the past seven years, more than four million Africans in 17 countries have gained access to clean drinking water through Mormon humanitarian efforts to sink or rehabilitate boreholes.


Hoping for more specifics, I followed the hyperlink in the article, and got to a page with this:
Quote:
The Church’s clean water projects in Africa have helped people in places such as Sierra Leone, the central African city of Luputa and the Congolese villages Tshiabobo, Mafumba, Kasha and Ibola. These projects have blessed the lives of nearly four million Africans since 2003.


So, still no details, but another hyperlink, which I followed to this:
Quote:
In 2002, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints began an initiative to improve the health of communities by providing access to clean water sources.

•Water sources depend on the area and needs of the communities, but may include wells, water storage, delivery systems or water purification systems.

Community members are involved in the planning and implementation of each project and provide most of the labor for the project. Community representatives are then trained on the maintenance of the system installed.


I stopped there, after reading labor is provided by community members.

So again, the two links have no relation to the OP, except to add the distressing news that it looks like the LDS church counts the labor of the people being helped as part of the value of the donations.

Returning to the topic, why did Anderson feel the need to assert "we are not a wealthy people"? It is clearly not true.


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Maybe what he meant was that they are a filthy rich people?

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Gadianton wrote:
Maybe what he meant was that they are a filthy rich people?

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:49 pm 
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well these new saints have a big lesson to learn about how the church operates.

When the Hawaii temple burned down, the Church asked the members for donations to rebuilt it. But wait, what about just cashing in on that fire insurance policy? Well, no, there is no fire insurance because the Church self-insurance. Oh, I get it. Well, then why don't they just pay for it then out of all that extra cash they've saved by not paying insurance premiums? That's what it means to self-insure, right? Huh. Well, why not give the members the opportunity for more blessings?

Mormonicious wrote:
Could be Elder Asshole Andersen knows something we mere Morgbots don't


Depends on what you mean, everyone knew that Hincker's mall was a huge money pit. Nothing about any numbers reported made sense at all, despite several finance dunces as Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board trying to explain it. But no, Anderson doesn't know that the Church is now poor because it f'd up an investment, it's quite the opposite. They'll do just fine no matter how many business close. See above for the first reason why. The second reason why is that a real estate company masquerading as a church, they have all kinds of tax advantages that allow them to assume more risk.

Ironically, their ill-gotten easy way of producing cash is a moral hazard and contributes to worse investment choices. The Saints are actually just throwing their money down the garbage disposal.

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FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:23 pm 
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https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/africa-clean-water
The Africa clean water project.

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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:38 pm 
God

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Lemmie wrote:
So I looked at the links in the last post, and found neither of them had any bearing on the OP topic.


Responding to Oblish.

He asked a question and I gave some information that demonstrates the fact that return missionaries, one would expect anyway, are playing and integral part in developing water projects with new technology which is providing fresh water for many Africans. Moksha then followed up later in the thread with additional information in regards to the great good the church is doing in Africa. Sometimes threads take a bit of a detour in order to answer and/or comment on a poster's question.

If you're disappointed the thread took a one post turn towards the positive, then what can I say.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: LDS Apostle TO VP of Zimbabwe: "we are not a wealthy peo
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:07 pm 
God

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Quote:
I gave some information that demonstrates the fact that return missionaries, one would expect anyway, are playing and integral part in developing water projects

You did nothing of the sort, as I proved in my last post, and your bolded words indicate you know that.

Back to the topic:
Gadianton wrote:
well these new saints have a big lesson to learn about how the church operates.

When the Hawaii temple burned down, the Church asked the members for donations to rebuilt it. But wait, what about just cashing in on that fire insurance policy? Well, no, there is no fire insurance because the Church self-insurance. Oh, I get it. Well, then why don't they just pay for it then out of all that extra cash they've saved by not paying insurance premiums? That's what it means to self-insure, right? Huh. Well, why not give the members the opportunity for more blessings?

Mormonicious wrote:
Could be Elder Asshole Andersen knows something we mere Morgbots don't


Depends on what you mean, everyone knew that Hincker's mall was a huge money pit. Nothing about any numbers reported made sense at all, despite several finance dunces as Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board trying to explain it. But no, Anderson doesn't know that the Church is now poor because it f'd up an investment, it's quite the opposite. They'll do just fine no matter how many business close. See above for the first reason why. The second reason why is that a real estate company masquerading as a church, they have all kinds of tax advantages that allow them to assume more risk.

Ironically, their ill-gotten easy way of producing cash is a moral hazard and contributes to worse investment choices. The Saints are actually just throwing their money down the garbage disposal.


Your first reason is what I found in Africa also. It reminds me of when I looked into some church projects a couple of years ago in Harare, Zimbabwe, where a temple is now planned. The PR person for the LDS church must have been new, because she outlined the process clearly, noting that although the LDS church touted this as a humanitarian effort, the LDS church had no cash budget for the project, as they would only provide the labor by having extremely poor zimbabwean members work for free. She also explained that because there was no cash budget, the LDS church expected her to get other churches and groups to donate supplies, equipment, and cash for any other needs. This was for the makeover of the Sunningale mall in Harare, where iirc, the LDS church now takes advantage of the cleanup by leasing out storefronts.

Laying odds now that the LDS temple will be built where the LDS church conned other humanitarian groups into paying for their cleanup. I don't know which is worse, that they conned other groups into paying all non-labor coats or that they conned extremely poor church members into working for free, so they could tout their work hours as the LDS church 'donation.'


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