The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

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_I have a question
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The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _I have a question »

Winning discussions with the antiMormons

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/714 ... n-shapiro/

The thread is worth a read as they are some real gems within it....like this one from "cdowis" on the first page...
Apologetics is a hobby, not a spiritual conversation. You are not trying to win over the antiMormon, but to favorably influence the audience by discrediting him.


But how can there be anti-Mormons if Mormons aren't Mormons anymore? Wouldn't an anti-Mormon be someone against the FLDS for instance, in which case Latter-day Saints are now anti-mormons?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Fence Sitter
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Every time Satan hears the word "Mormon" another devil gets his horns.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_moksha
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _moksha »

Besides Ben Shapiro, I suspect MD&D posters could utilize some of the techniques developed by Scientology.

Cdowis, mentioned the most important apologetic tool, but the other two are also worth mentioning:

1. Ad Hominem Arguments - as Cdowis mentioned

2. Pretzelized Logic

3. Denial

Hope that helps.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_MsJack
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _MsJack »

As soon as I heard Nelson's announcement, I questioned what apologists would resort to calling critics since both "anti-Mormon" and "anti-LDS" violate his directive.

Guess they haven't been able to think of anything.

Let victories for Satan roll like a river!
"It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

I think the cojcolds (the j is silent) ought to embrace Brighamites as their One True Nomenclature. Think of the branding opportunities...

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _Stem »

There remains something to be said in all of this, I'd say.

If the average Mormon has no qualms in calling people anti-Mormon, while also agreeing with Nelson that God get's offended and Satan gets a win when members refer to themselves or the Church as Mormon, then it seems they don't take seriously Nelson's claim of revelation on this matter. Or they think there are exceptions to its use that simply don't offend God.

I would think if I were still really in the Church, I would see Nelson's injunction as his personal preference that he for some odd reason elevated to the level of revelation. I guess with that, I'd have to lower my expectations and my respect for him. I'd think it silly to worry about referring to the members or church as Mormon, and I'd do it any time the situation suited me.
_I have a question
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _I have a question »

Stem wrote:There remains something to be said in all of this, I'd say.

If the average Mormon has no qualms in calling people anti-Mormon, while also agreeing with Nelson that God get's offended and Satan gets a win when members refer to themselves or the Church as Mormon, then it seems they don't take seriously Nelson's claim of revelation on this matter. Or they think there are exceptions to its use that simply don't offend God.

I would think if I were still really in the Church, I would see Nelson's injunction as his personal preference that he for some odd reason elevated to the level of revelation. I guess with that, I'd have to lower my expectations and my respect for him. I'd think it silly to worry about referring to the members or church as Mormon, and I'd do it any time the situation suited me.


There's also a window into the idea that there is unanimity across the Apostles. Nelson has held the opinion that the term "Mormon" should be outlawed for a long time. Here is a link to a talk he gave in General Conference back in 1990.
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... d?lang=eng

So Nelson held that view when the "I'm a Mormon" and "Meet The Mormons" initiatives were presented to the Apostles for sign off. Did he vote in their favour? Did he strenuously object and vote against? Did he not encourage his colleagues to fast and pray about something which he thought was a battle against Satan, and if he didn't why didn't he? etc.

I'd like to understand just exactly what Nelson did or didn't do during the sign off process of those two campaigns and whether they went ahead with at least one Apostle voting against them or not. Or did Nelson lack the courage of his convictions?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Maksutov
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _Maksutov »

MsJack wrote:As soon as I heard Nelson's announcement, I questioned what apologists would resort to calling critics since both "anti-Mormon" and "anti-LDS" violate his directive.

Guess they haven't been able to think of anything.

Let victories for Satan roll like a river!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Shulem
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _Shulem »

Don't you dare say "Mormon"!

Hinckley and Monson are being corrected. I'm in charge now.


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_moksha
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Re: The Mad Boarders still believe in Mormons...

Post by _moksha »

MsJack wrote:As soon as I heard Nelson's announcement, I questioned what apologists would resort to calling critics since both "anti-Mormon" and "anti-LDS" violate his directive.

This afternoon at MD&D they have used both the terms anti-Mormon and critics. I think they pronounce the S in critics with a sound resembling parseltongue.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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