Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Craig Paxton
_Emeritus
Posts: 2389
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Craig Paxton »

The recent release of Warrens DNA study showing that she has someone in her recent ancestry from the Indigenous American population exposes some wiggle room for those within the church who want to hold on to the apologetic claim that Lehi's DNA disappeared from the DNA record. In the 2nd graph we learn that ancestors do not contribute genetic material equally over time and some do not contribute any. What this does is give room for the "New" LDS apologetic claim that Lehi's DNA did not survive and that we should not expect to find any DNA in any of his living descendants. While I personally view the Book of Mormon as a work of fiction, this information does allow the LDS Church to maintain their apologetic position thus giving the lack of DNA support for the books claims some wiggle room. Lack of DNA is NOT the death knell many would like it to be. Thoughts? https://www.msn.com/…/fa…/analysis-just-about-everything-you’ve-read-on-the-warren-dna-test-is-wrong/ar-BBOxm95?ocid=spartandhp
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
_SuperDell
_Emeritus
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 12:27 am

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _SuperDell »

So, any Neanderthal and other way-back DNA show up in the tests? Maybe with a "native american" in the woodpile a black or three shows up as well?

With this little Native American DNA showing up does she have to give back scholarship money and whatnot since she apparently checked "native american" on her College records and scholarship papers? This, per news reports - and I don't know how accurate they are.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _moksha »

I was hoping that Trump would issue a second challenge to Senator Warren, asking her to submit a genetic sample to LDS Ancestry.com in order to prove she had some Lamanite DNA. Since Trump reneges on all such challenge bets, he might as well raise the amount to 100 million dollars this time.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Analytics
_Emeritus
Posts: 4231
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Analytics »

SuperDell wrote:So, any Neanderthal and other way-back DNA show up in the tests? Maybe with a "native american" in the woodpile a black or three shows up as well?

With this little Native American DNA showing up does she have to give back scholarship money and whatnot since she apparently checked "native american" on her College records and scholarship papers? This, per news reports - and I don't know how accurate they are.

Just so you know, the "news" reports you heard about this are not true. When she applied to college, she checked "white" on some applications and "declined to answer" on others. She never got any scholarship money from this.

She graduated from law school in 1976 and became a law professor. For 10 years during her career--from 1986 to 1995, the "Directory of Law Teachers" listed her as a racial minority. She said she checked the box for "native American" when filling out the card for the directory because she was interested in meeting people of native American heritage because she thought that she had a little bit of native American ancestry herself, based on the family stories she'd heard as a child.

Throughout her career, she never asked for nor received affirmative action consideration based on being a minority.
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Craig Paxton wrote:The recent release of Warrens DNA study showing that she has someone in her recent ancestry from the Indigenous American population...


Are you talking about geologic history? Because 6 to 10 generations back, based of DNA comparison to Mexican, Peruvian, and Colombian samples doesn't really square with her claims.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Dr Exiled
_Emeritus
Posts: 3616
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:48 am

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Analytics wrote:She said she checked the box for "native American" when filling out the card for the directory because she was interested in meeting people of native American heritage because she thought that she had a little bit of native American ancestry herself, based on the family stories she'd heard as a child.


This seems doubious given how Harvard was under pressure to hire more minorities at the time. If I want to meet whatever group, there are better ways than passively listing a certain heritage in a directory that only those affiliated with the university use. I am part german, but don't list myself as such. I am related to the english royals but the relationship is so distant that it isn't worth mentioning. However, I am now persuaded to change my listings to say I am related to royalty. Maybe I can meet some royal for tea this way?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Analytics
_Emeritus
Posts: 4231
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 pm

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Analytics »

Exiled wrote:
Analytics wrote:She said she checked the box for "native American" when filling out the card for the directory because she was interested in meeting people of native American heritage because she thought that she had a little bit of native American ancestry herself, based on the family stories she'd heard as a child.


This seems doubious given how Harvard was under pressure to hire more minorities at the time....

That's easy to say. But what is your evidence that that is what happened?

The actual hiring process at Harvard is that after being recommended by a small appointments committee, every new potential candidate is put up to a discussion among the 60+ faculty members of the law school, who must vote in favor of giving her the job by a 67% margin. How many of these people agree with you that the only reason they hired her was because of "pressure to hire more minorities"?

The day after she was hired, was their an article in the Harvard Crimson about her race? It turns out there was. Keep reading...

It turns out that after being unanimously recommended by the appointments committee, she went up to vote with the entire faculty of 66 law school professors. 25 years later, only 52 are still alive. The Boston Globe reached out to all 52 of them for an interview about this. 31 agreed to be interviewed by the Globe. Of those 31, 30 agreed that "There was no talk about her Native American claims during the meetings over her appointment." The 31st was professor Lloyd Weinreb, who thinks it was brought up, but isn't sure he is remembering correct and said, “I am not sure enough for you to rely on me."

Several of the professors did say they talked about her being a woman. But they all thought of her as a white woman. Nobody ever held her up to the people who were pressuring for more minorities and said, "We just hired a native-American woman!" If their motivation was to get diversification credit with the people that were pressuring them, why wouldn't they have claimed credit for hiring a minority?

Boston Globe wrote:Perhaps most telling was the role of Randall Kennedy, a law professor who was on the Harvard appointments committee at the time, and was in charge of recruiting minority candidates.

“She was not on the radar screen at all in terms of a racial minority hire,” Kennedy told the Globe. “It was just not an issue. I can’t remember anybody ever mentioning her in this context.”

This view is shared by those on the faculty who aren’t close with Warren, ideologically or personally.

“This is a made-up issue,” said Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard Law professor emeritus and occasional Trump defender, when asked if her heritage played a role. “This is not an issue that’s worthy of the president or anyone else.”

Others sounded a note of exasperation that the Globe was examining this question again.

“It had nothing to do with our consideration and deliberation,” said Charles Fried, the former solicitor general to president Ronald Reagan and a member of the Harvard Law School appointments committee at the time. “How many times do you have to have the same thing explained to you?”

It’s not even clear that Warren would have been accepted as a true minority hire if she’d been pitched to the faculty that way. “It wouldn’t have even worked in the most diehard communities,” said Wilkins, who was one of the only black law professors on staff. “Let’s be blunt. Elizabeth Warren is a white woman. She may have some Native American roots, but so do most people.”

The Harvard Law School students who were clamoring for more diversity also did not view her as a woman of color when she was offered a job.

“In order to show a real commitment to diversity they need to do more than pass a resolution and bring in white women,” said Julie A. Su, then a second-year Harvard Law student who was quoted in the Harvard Crimson the day after Warren was offered the job.

If she got the job because she was allegedly a minority, why would Julie A. Su say at the time she was a white woman?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation ... story.html
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/eliza ... -american/
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari
_Rosebud
_Emeritus
Posts: 1088
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Elizabeth Warren and Losing Lehi's DNA

Post by _Rosebud »

Nothing is a death knell. Maintaining belief is not about reason and information. It's about identity, belongingness and self-perception.

I'm still struck by how clueless Nelson is to mess with identity by changing the name of the church. Does he not get why Mormonism works? Maybe he really believes he's a prophet. It must be bizarre to live inside his head:

"Heavenly Father, how would you like me to direct your church?"

"Son, I am disappointed that my beloved son's name is omitted when people refer to my Latter-day Saints and my restored gospel. Please rectify that situation."

"Yes, father. I will go and do as thou hast commanded."

Or maybe he knows exactly what he's doing.
Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document
Post Reply