Counterfeit Religion

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_Kishkumen
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Kishkumen »

I trust Cheryl Bruno’s careful review. She points out a lot of methodological problems in the book, and it looks to me that her criticisms are accurate. Melonakos is overly enthusiastic and inexperienced. She found this new angle, counterfeiting, and she went to town with it. Not being a trained historian or academic, she was not sufficiently careful to satisfy the historians. All of this is true.

This is the kind of book that many historians will buy, read, pick apart, and never cite approvingly, if they cite it at all. But they will buy and read it. Bruno rightly criticized it, but she does not utterly dismiss it. She carefully criticizes its methodological weaknesses.

What is this book? A sensational synthesis of sensational accounts and accusations, some of which may be true, but how much is very difficult to tell. The sensational source material is undoubtedly part of what prompted Brooke (Refiner’s Fire) to adopt the heuristic framework of “purity and danger” that DCP in his characteristically prejudicial manner dismissed out of hand.

But Brooke was on the right track, being much more experienced, humane, and perspicacious than Melonakos. (I have no bad feelings toward Melonakos aside from my disappointment in her typical ex-Mormon Protestant’s bigotry toward Mormonism.) Freemasonry, moneydigging, and counterfeiting were all part of the mix in early Mormonism, but not in the morally simplistic sense of mere criminality.

Joseph Smith, and many people like him, were entrepreneurial in forging their own way in the margins. These people operated on both sides of the boundary between the legal and illicit. They did good things and bad. They helped and harmed others. Smith is revered by those who have generally been fed a whitewashed version of his history, but those who come to hate him too frequently go excessively negative on him. He becomes the devil his contemporary enemies made him out to be.

The truth is much more complicated. Yes, no one is obliged to like this character or want to have anything to do with him. Nevertheless, he is very much an American character, one of us. His inferior, metaphorical grandchildren sell essential oils in the desert cities of the West and bear fervent witness of their spiritual truths. If we want to understand them, and not just demonize them, we need to accept and work with the complexity of the situation in which the founders sprang up.

It was a world of adventuring spirit and authority’s very limited reach. People were selling the snake oil and believing in their goodness in providing the service. Threaten them, and they bite back. They resent the learned men of privilege who represent the encroachment of an elite that would quash their opportunities. Moral condemnation is treated as the imminent threat of the establishment’s power that would destroy their chance to become people of dignity. Is this so difficult to understand? Does it sound so alien?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Gadianton »

Kishkumen wrote:This is the kind of book that many historians will buy, read, pick apart, and never cite approvingly, if they cite it at all. But they will buy and read it. Bruno rightly criticized it, but she does not utterly dismiss it. She carefully criticizes its methodological weaknesses.

If the average historian had to choose between this book as a reference, and the new online "Saints' book LDS inc. just published, which do you think they'd pick as the greater contribution?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Kishkumen »

Gadianton wrote:If the average historian had to choose between this book as a reference, and the new online "Saints' book LDS inc. just published, which do you think they'd pick as the greater contribution?

LOL. Well, I doubt many people would publicly admit to viewing either as helpful to their work, but the Melonakos book does, at the very least, give you a narrow path to certain sources and problems. Her conclusions, on the other hand, will undoubtedly be dismissed.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Blixa
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Blixa »

Kishkumen wrote:
...

The sensational source material is undoubtedly part of what prompted Brooke (Refiner’s Fire) to adopt the heuristic framework of “purity and danger” that DCP in his characteristically prejudicial manner dismissed out of hand.

But Brooke was on the right track, being much more experienced, humane, and perspicacious than Melonakos. (I have no bad feelings toward Melonakos aside from my disappointment in her typical ex-Mormon Protestant’s bigotry toward Mormonism.) Freemasonry, moneydigging, and counterfeiting were all part of the mix in early Mormonism, but not in the morally simplistic sense of mere criminality.

Joseph Smith, and many people like him, were entrepreneurial in forging their own way in the margins. These people operated on both sides of the boundary between the legal and illicit. They did good things and bad. They helped and harmed others. Smith is revered by those who have generally been fed a whitewashed version of his history, but those who come to hate him too frequently go excessively negative on him. He becomes the devil his contemporary enemies made him out to be.

The truth is much more complicated. Yes, no one is obliged to like this character or want to have anything to do with him. Nevertheless, he is very much an American character, one of us. His inferior, metaphorical grandchildren sell essential oils in the desert cities of the West and bear fervent witness of their spiritual truths. If we want to understand them, and not just demonize them, we need to accept and work with the complexity of the situation in which the founders sprang up.

It was a world of adventuring spirit and authority’s very limited reach. People were selling the snake oil and believing in their goodness in providing the service. Threaten them, and they bite back. They resent the learned men of privilege who represent the encroachment of an elite that would quash their opportunities. Moral condemnation is treated as the imminent threat of the establishment’s power that would destroy their chance to become people of dignity. Is this so difficult to understand? Does it sound so alien?


This is exemplary of a generous scholarly approach that I value highly.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Kishkumen
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Kishkumen »

This is exemplary of a generous scholarly approach that I value highly.

Thank you, Blixa!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Johannes
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Johannes »

I'm wondering whether this is worth the investment of time....

What are her three strongest new points, Kish?
_Kishkumen
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Kishkumen »

Johannes wrote:I'm wondering whether this is worth the investment of time....

What are her three strongest new points, Kish?


That's a good question, Johannes. But likely one with a very individual answer for each who asks it. Is this worth the investment of time? Well, allow me to venture a guess that it is not worth it to you.

Her three strongest points?

First, let me point out that I have as of yet not read the book, which is what one needs to read in order to answer this question properly.

Nevertheless, my thoughts based on the podcast are that she is trying to make sense out of:

1. The accusations of counterfeiting that hung about the air of Early Mormonism, and its relationship with:

2. The activities and personalities of Early Mormon figures.

3. Accusations of criminal activity that were cast at the Mormons. Were they simple persecution, or did the Mormons commit crimes, which were legitimized organizationally in some sense? Here we are thinking Danites.

I am not going to cast my mind back to the interview to try to make sure I have given you the three strongest points. All I can say is that these are three points that I thought worth thinking about and investigating if Mormonism is your area of study.

As a parting comment: money digging was a legally marginal activity in which the Smith family and other early Mormons participated in and even led. I think Melonakos is asking the right questions when she thinks about how money digging fed into and perhaps even informed the formation of the early Mormon church.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Johannes
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Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Johannes »

Kishkumen wrote:That's a good question, Johannes. But likely one with a very individual answer for each who asks it. Is this worth the investment of time? Well, allow me to venture a guess that it is not worth it to you.


You may be right, reverend sir. One has priorities, and I haven't even properly read Brooke yet, so this person is somewhat down the list.

The counterfeiting angle isn't one that I've heard much about before (although I know Brooke talks about it). It's interesting because I would have thought that counterfeiting requires technical knowledge, skill and capital with which to buy equipment. This seems to me to be a different world from indigent small farmers with their money-digging and dictating books from a gold Bible. But perhaps that's my own ignorance talking.
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Counterfeit Religion

Post by _Kishkumen »

Brooke is what anyone curious about this angle should read first. Once you read that, it may be worth your time to look at the evidence Melonakos compiled for her book. Theoretically and methodologically, this book is not very strong, but it can be very helpful to see sources put together in a certain way, even if you don’t agree with the author’s methods and conclusions for very good reasons.

I am not aware that we have good evidence supporting early Mormons possessing the expensive equipment for bogus making. But that is not entirely the point, in my view. There may be evidence out there that they were involved in a counterfeiting ring. Someone better off may have owned the equipment. Maybe not. In any case concocting a story of or actual “gold” plates that may or may not have spiritual or monetary value worked for the Smiths to gain power, status, and a certain degree of wealth. That sounds pretty close to bogus making to me.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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