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 Post subject: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:30 pm 
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SALT LAKE CITY — Allegations rejected 30 years ago by multiple law enforcement investigations resurfaced Wednesday in a federal lawsuit filed against the daughter and son-in-law of the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The couple was identified only as John and Jane Doe in the suit, but an attorney for the defendants identified them as Brenda and Richard Miles, the daughter and son-in-law of President Russell M. Nelson, president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, often called the Mormon church.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Utah by six unnamed plaintiffs, alleges that their father and the Mileses were part of a ring of adults and babysitters who sexually assaulted them as young children during "touching parties" at homes in their Bountiful neighborhood.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... abuse.html

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:18 pm 
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If this case is based on recovered memories through hypnosis, then it's probably a bunch of #@$!.

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
If this case is based on recovered memories through hypnosis, then it's probably a bunch of #@$!.


It is. Barbara Snow was notorious for that, and she was at the epicenter of the the recovered memory/ritual abuse craze.

"Indeed, there is evidence that suggests that Snow's beliefs have had more of an effect on the final outcome of her investigations than the memories of the children she questions. Because the details of several alleged ritual abuse cases she had investigated were so suspiciously similar, Utah police deliberately fed her false information to see if her suggestive interviewing techniques were influencing the children's allegations. Soon enough this information appeared in the answers of the children she interviewed."

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/t ... oid=889956

This is filed a couple of days before General Conference by Craig Vernon, after getting exactly zero traction decades ago. It's a Craig Vernon stunt.


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:31 pm 
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I was involved with a recovered memory lawsuit. I don’t know what had happened to the woman who filed the suit, but her memories of abuse were embedded in so many outlandish, provably false claims that her claims were simply not credible. Her allegations tore the family apart, and I came away feeling bad for all involved. Except the therapist who helped her “recover” the memories.

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:46 pm 
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Was this around the time Pace issued his infamous satanic ritual abuse memo? It was really astonishing to read that special piece of nonsense and realize how gullible even the highest of church leaders can be.


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:55 pm 
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Looks like the allegations were made about three years after the Pace memo was leaked to the press.

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Well now..... this one is going to be interesting.

Plenty of false accusations floating around.

Plenty of true ones, too.

What a Mormon mess.

The Pace memo is only as bat ____ crazy as Mormonism is bat ____ crazy. The two are on par. Only a Mormom could believe in the Pace memo because the Pace memo is steeped in Mormonism.

But to perpetrators, isn't one red herring just as good as another? The world is full of sadists who have no problem hurting children and who love a good fish!

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Rosebud wrote:
Well now..... this one is going to be interesting.

Plenty of false accusations floating around.

Plenty of true ones, too.

What a Mormon mess.

The Pace memo is only as bat ____ crazy as Mormonism is bat ____ crazy. The two are on par. Only a Mormom could believe in the Pace memo because the Pace memo is steeped in Mormonism.

But to perpetrators, isn't one red herring just as good as another? The world is full of sadists who have no problem hurting children and who love a good fish!


The recovered memory fiasco was far from a Mormon mess. It was a weird period of mass hysteria propelled by pseudo science.

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
The recovered memory fiasco was far from a Mormon mess. It was a weird period of mass hysteria propelled by pseudo science.


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:21 pm 
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If some memories are false, are all memories false?

If a perpetrator knows a child won't remember something if it's traumatic enough, would a perpetrator be incentivized to increase the level of trauma?

If a perpetrator knows how to ensure an event isn't rememembered and if any memories recalled at a later date are discredited as a "recovered," then what actions would a perpetrator take to work towards ensuring he or she would never get caught?

Should we assume that people can actually be this vile or should we assume that's absolutely impossible? If we decide it's not absolutely impossible that people could be this vile, then what is to stop this kind of abuse from taking place? It's not even very creative: a bunch of sadistic people dressing up, using drugs and having "fun." Oh... yeah.... impossible.... that never ever happens.

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Rosebud wrote:
Well now..... this one is going to be interesting.

Plenty of false accusations floating around.

Plenty of true ones, too.

What a Mormon mess.

The Pace memo is only as bat ____ crazy as Mormonism is bat ____ crazy. The two are on par. Only a Mormom could believe in the Pace memo because the Pace memo is steeped in Mormonism.

But to perpetrators, isn't one red herring just as good as another? The world is full of sadists who have no problem hurting children and who love a good fish!


The recovered memory fiasco was far from a Mormon mess. It was a weird period of mass hysteria propelled by pseudo science.


Yes, it was. And Mormonism had its own brand of it as demonstrated by the Pace memo.

And I am saying that all the branding.... Mormon and otherwise.... became a nice, fat, juicy red herring.

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:25 pm 
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for what it's worth, Barbara Snow taught one of the best classes I ever took during my undergrad. Very cogent.

So how did this all really happen?

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

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Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:29 pm 
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And it's nice to see what Sam'a work has spurred.

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Rosebud wrote:
If some memories are false, are all memories false?


Well, if you subscribe to materialism, then all our memories are just stored in the data drive that is our brain. I think some storage units are better at preventing fragmentaion of stored data, and its reconstruction when we attempt to recall a memory.

I think, from what I've read, when we recall memories we're heavily influencing them through the lens of subjectivity, and subjectivity is influened by all sorts of factors. It's not unreasonable to believe the data stored in our brains basically don't store very well over time, through physical trauma, or some other factor.

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An image our brain's wiring, so to speak:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Oh..... and it's important to keep in mind that the exceptionally "anti-Mormon" side of this is based on the notion that children who are sexually abused have a higher likelihood of growing up to become perpetrators than children who aren't sexually abused. This is pointing right at the prophet.

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Rosebud wrote:
If some memories are false, are all memories false?


Well, if you subscribe to materialism, then all our memories are just stored in the data drive that is our brain. I think some storage units are better at preventing fragmentaion of stored data, and its reconstruction when we attempt to recall a memory.

I think, from what I've read, when we recall memories we're heavily influencing them through the lens of subjectivity, and subjectivity is influened by all sorts of factors. It's not unreasonable to believe the data stored in our brains basically don't store very well over time, through physical trauma, or some other factor.

- Doc

An image our brain's wiring, so to speak:

Image


So your answer to the question, "If some memories are false, are all memories false?" Is "no"? Or is your answer that all old memories are false? Or only that some old memories are false?

Is it the length of time between the moment of recall and the date the memory was made the determining factor between a "true" memory and a "false" memory?

If some components of an old memory are false are all components of the same old memory false?

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Here's a link to the Pace memo if anyone wants it:

https://www.scribd.com/document/1059677 ... e-7-19-90#

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Chronological List of Relevant Documents, Media Reports and Occurrences with Links regarding the lawsuit alleging President Nelson's daughter and son-in-law are sexual predators.

By our own Mary (with maybe some input from me when I can help). Thank you Mary!

Thread about the lawsuit

Thread about Mary's chronological document


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Rosebud wrote:
So your answer to the question, "If some memories are false, are all memories false?" Is "no"? Or is your answer that all old memories are false? Or only that some old memories are false?

Is it the length of time between the moment of recall and the date the memory was made the determining factor between a "true" memory and a "false" memory?

If some components of an old memory are false are all components of the same old memory false?


Well. I don't really know. When it comes to our brains, and our perception of the world, where does it cross over from science into philosophy, or even metaphysics?

Once something is recorded, is it real or is it Memorex? And using that analogy if the tape you're using to store data on is crappy, then how good is the recording? And if the tape has been erased, and later subjected to forensics how much data are you recovering and is it enough information to make out the original event that merited recording in the first place?

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
The recovered memory fiasco was far from a Mormon mess. It was a weird period of mass hysteria propelled by pseudo science.


Image

- Doc

Hi Doc,

What's the connection between the image you posted and the text to which it's responding?

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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Was this around the time Pace issued his infamous satanic ritual abuse memo? It was really astonishing to read that special piece of nonsense and realize how gullible even the highest of church leaders can be.


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Nelsons daughter and son-in-law accused of sex abuse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:53 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
If this case is based on recovered memories through hypnosis, then it's probably a bunch of #@$!.

Those reading the case info say it's not from recovered memories. I'll come back in a couple hours with their links if noone else posts them.

I've been warned to buckle up.


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