candygal wrote:If you are a new comer to the MD@D board with a set of questions..usually some basic..vision..polygamy or translation problems..you might get some basic answers...but...a new comer's 2nd or 3rd question usually is..Why didn't I know this?? This is where board members jump down your throat...and tell it has always been there..and for heaven's sakes, if you don't know..it is you own fault.
It will always be the questioners fault and it is not something that one needs to hear when facing a faith crisis.
Yup...it’s ALWAYS the doubters fault. Those damn doubters just took everything too seriously...when instead they should have taken everything with a bit of nuance and skepticism...bless their hearts
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Kishkumen wrote:Managing expectations. Oh, great idea, don't get me wrong. But seriously? Let's start with reforming that theology and then see how expectations can really be managed. Anything else is just ineffective. Window dressing.
Another approach that would help a great deal would be to drop the idea of a "faith crisis" and recognize the truth about the process. It is nothing more than rational, fact-based evaluation and testing of unfounded beliefs. When done carefully and honestly, the outcome is seldom, if ever, good news for the LDS Church.
Amen
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace
"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick
“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
Kishkumen wrote:Managing expectations. Oh, great idea, don't get me wrong. But seriously? Let's start with reforming that theology and then see how expectations can really be managed. Anything else is just ineffective. Window dressing.
DrW wrote:Another approach that would help a great deal would be to drop the idea of a "faith crisis" and recognize the truth about the process. It is nothing more than rational, fact-based evaluation and testing of unfounded beliefs. When done carefully and honestly, the outcome is seldom, if ever, good news for the LDS Church.
Craig Paxton wrote:Amen
I like how one of our posters phrased it something like this.
"I discovered it wasn't me who was having a faith crisis, but the church was having a truth crisis."
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Kishkumen wrote:For example, the missionary discussions suggest that Joseph Smith was a prophet in the same sense as Old Testament prophets, and that the president of the LDS Church today is a prophet in the same sense Joseph Smith was.
Well of course believers believe that. The issue is more conservative Protestants and especially Evangelicals who have an expectation of infallibility towards scripture and prophets despite the text not supporting that. (Say the story of Jonah and his perceptions of his message)
I think the Church attempts to deal with those expectations somewhat, but I definitely think they could do better. Although again I'd note they're trying and have made many changes the past few years.
The Church that demands everything must promise everything even though it delivers very little. Once people realize the end of my statement is true, the jig is up. The promise is tied up in the claims. Realizing the promise will not be fulfilled follows on the discovery that the claims are not all they are cracked up to be.
The difference with Protestantism is that its entire edifice is built on a rejection of the primacy of the Church. It is not the Church that delivers. It is not the Church that demands. It is not the Church that requires obedience. One has a relationship with God, and salvation is not meted out by priests through ordinances.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
ClarkGoble wrote: Although again I'd note they're trying and have made many changes the past few years.
They have?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
ClarkGoble wrote:You don't see the essays on controversial topics along with getting them taught in RS/PH as significant?
They're getting taught in Relief Society and priesthood meetings?? When did that start?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
ClarkGoble wrote:You don't see the essays on controversial topics along with getting them taught in RS/PH...
They are? Really?
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
Dr. Shades wrote:They're getting taught in Relief Society and priesthood meetings?? When did that start?
Yeah. I've not heard that claim...even on the MAD board. If they are being taught as part of the curriculum and RS and priesthood meetings, fantastic, but I don't think that is an accurate claim at all.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby
Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson