peacemaker wrote:I had to review the entire transcript again. You and consiglieri are right, but Bishop's lack of memory doesn't prove a rape did happen. Calm (a great and brilliant thinker) said in a message board
I don't remember anyone disagreeing with Denson saying what she described was labeled as rape by the detectives even though she described originally in the Bishop interview as attempted rape (though she when she describes coping with what is happening with her, she labels it rape If I recall correctly).
There is the contradiction between her claim that rape occurred and Bishop's denial about rape to the police...and I think if you look at everything he says about the basement, he is denying that in the recording as well because he says 'I don't remember it happening that way' and starts to give his version. Whether this is because the rape didn't happen or he is avoiding any hint of nonconsensual sexual activity (possibly from habit), I don't think can be established by the information given.
Even if limited to what he admits to on his own, it is abuse in my opinion. I will be honest and say I am unsure if the alleged rape took place, but not because I think Bishop is incapable of it (I can easily see him taking his seduction routine too far, Denson's description of the alleged rape sounds quite reasonable to me given how he presents himself in other situations). My issue is his mental state, his voice doesn't sound defensive to begin with and much of the conversation outside of the rape accusation, but confused and agreeable when he says he doesn't remember stuff that Denson is describing leading up to the rape. I think he is present enough when rape is being discussed he could easily be lying there, the gravity of the accusation gets him fully awake at least for a time (he goes in and out of alertness and assertiveness, in my opinion). It is when he is all vague, he doesn't provide any hints that he is recognizing rape precursor details, he recognizes the room is all. His memory loss/possible dementia in other ways doesn't seem that bad, he has problems following along, makes weird connections rather than logical and reasonable predictions of where the conversation is headed even when he himself is telling a story (jumps to speculating she has biker friends when she talks about threatening to kill him as if he is thinking she would get them to do it or maybe get a gun from them; starts out one story with helping his son spiritually), but he is very articulate in his story about Elder Asay. And he gets the implications of her going public on his family. So it seems to me he would have provided more confirming details because he didn't understand where she was heading, but I don't see him doing that. On the other hand, his dementia could be worse than it appears and actually have caused him to forget those details or he could be more coherent and practiced at playing dumb, so I am still very open to there being a rape.
Thanks for your explanation that helps me understand where you're coming from.
I think the rape claim believable. That he says he can't remember is odd if there was no such attempt. If someone were accused of raping another and they did not know it, they would not reply with "I can't remember". I'd think this person would deny it outright without qualification. And she passed a polygraph as per the rape accusation. And to me he clearly suggests he could have done something like that. I think it's clear it happened. And I think it's clear he's lying about remembering.
Stem wrote:I think the rape claim believable. That he says he can't remember is odd if there was no such attempt. If someone were accused of raping another and they did not know it, they would not reply with "I can't remember". I'd think this person would deny it outright without qualification. And she passed a polygraph as per the rape accusation. And to me he clearly suggests he could have done something like that. I think it's clear it happened. And I think it's clear he's lying about remembering.
Furthermore, it's notebale than unless you are on the recieving end of a narcissist's hostilities, it can be hard to understand that people like that exist. they operate by different rules and can have a totally different but well-developed skillset of manipulation.
"Mckenna Denson is the only woman accusing Bishop of rape. It makes more sense to believe Bro. Bishop because he doesn't have a history of deceiving. It is extra impossible to disprove an alleged rape that happened 30 years ago."
"It makes more sense to believe Bro. Bishop because he doesn't have a history of deceiving."
He admitted in the interview that he did something on his mission but only made a partial confession, most likely leaving the most serious act out. The deception started then and continued through every "worthiness" interview when he was called to a certain position.
consiglieri wrote:Does it make any difference McKenna passed a polygraph test with flying colors on the question of her being raped by Bishop at the MTC?
Stem wrote:Thanks for your explanation that helps me understand where you're coming from.
I think the rape claim believable. That he says he can't remember is odd if there was no such attempt. If someone were accused of raping another and they did not know it, they would not reply with "I can't remember". I'd think this person would deny it outright without qualification. And she passed a polygraph as per the rape accusation. And to me he clearly suggests he could have done something like that. I think it's clear it happened. And I think it's clear he's lying about remembering.
I do not believe in polygraphs. The "I can't remember" is the best evidence, but it is not enough. A lying man would have quickly denied it. It is odd he said "I can't remember" if there was no such attempt, unless he wasn't really paying close attention to what Denson was saying. In the interview Bishop said many things that didn't make much sense.
consiglieri wrote:Does it make any difference McKenna passed a polygraph test with flying colors on the question of her being raped by Bishop at the MTC?
This seems silly question, and I think you know it does not make a difference. I am only addressing the value of a polygraph.
Anti-Mormons think the prophet Joseph Smith was a con man, but believe McKenna Denson is an honest person. The antis are living in a backwards fantasy world.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
peacemaker wrote:Anti-Mormons think the prophet Joseph Smith was a con man, but believe McKenna Denson is an honest person. The antis are living in a backwards fantasy world.
Do you notice that you're depending on blanket judgments in order to evaluate their claims? Don't you realize that the respective legitimacies of their claims are independent of their characters?
We can't take Denson's word with her history of fake rape allegations, identity fraud, forging prescriptions, restaurant insurance scam, fake cancer claims, fake "razor in a cake" claims. You can't prove that a rape happened and Bishop is denying it.
peacemaker wrote:We can't take Denson's word with her history of fake rape allegations, identity fraud, forging prescriptions, restaurant insurance scam, fake cancer claims, fake "razor in a cake" claims. You can't prove that a rape happened and Bishop is denying it.
Smac97 over at the other board likes to run down that identical list also, every time the allegations against Bishop come up, as though if he says it enough times the case against Bishop will disappear.
Given that he's a lawyer I can't imagine why he thinks that strategy would cause anyone to simply dismiss the allegations of which Bishop is accused.