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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:40 pm 
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DB:

Were you texting or typing during the podcast? A lot of clicking sounds were picked up in the recording.

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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:44 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Do you remember Chad Hardie?
https://www.upi.com/Calendars-feature-M ... 240956587/

He had already walked at graduation then released his calendar before actually receiving his diploma in the mail. It never came.

I hope this young lady is not premature in this podcast. What an ugly organization to put her and many others in such horrible circumstance. And it sounds like the poor girl is yet to deal with her family.

I hate this church.

I met him and still have the Calendar...I hope his life is going well..he got a lot of crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
Yes, Craig, but finding out the reality of Joseph Smith's plagiarism shouldn't kill the TBM soul ..... ?? "God" inspired the synthesis of the ideas that existed at the time. Sure, one may consider this plagiarism but that word is too harsh. For TBM's, the better word is still "translation." TBM's and their apologists have made "translation" so large that it almost covers everything Joseph Smith did.

hah...Sometimes I wonder if we're too hard on Joseph Smith. I mean if he took resources all around him, copied them down, reworked them to some extent and then told everyone it was legit revelation from God, he really only did exactly what was done by those who wrote the Bible. I mean from the top of it all the way down to the end of it. But if there is a God and the Israelites were his chosen and modern day Mormons are his chosen, and he's seeing all of this happen with little to no involvement, He might be thinking it doens't really matter. I mean to him we're all probably so damn ignorant we can't figure out that which is true anyway. He might as well sit up there in the yonder heavens and let us spit out any old crap we can muster and call it scripture.

"Eh...doesn't matter it's as good as any of these bozos could come up with anyway. Might as well let them think it's scripture representing something that matters."

once Mormonism adopts that way of viewing things they'll create a rock too big for the world to handle.


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Stem wrote:
Exiled wrote:
Yes, Craig, but finding out the reality of Joseph Smith's plagiarism shouldn't kill the TBM soul ..... ?? "God" inspired the synthesis of the ideas that existed at the time. Sure, one may consider this plagiarism but that word is too harsh. For TBM's, the better word is still "translation." TBM's and their apologists have made "translation" so large that it almost covers everything Joseph Smith did.

hah...Sometimes I wonder if we're too hard on Joseph Smith. I mean if he took resources all around him, copied them down, reworked them to some extent and then told everyone it was legit revelation from God, he really only did exactly what was done by those who wrote the Bible. I mean from the top of it all the way down to the end of it. But if there is a God and the Israelites were his chosen and modern day Mormons are his chosen, and he's seeing all of this happen with little to no involvement, He might be thinking it doens't really matter. I mean to him we're all probably so damn ignorant we can't figure out that which is true anyway. He might as well sit up there in the yonder heavens and let us spit out any old crap we can muster and call it scripture.

"Eh...doesn't matter it's as good as any of these bozos could come up with anyway. Might as well let them think it's scripture representing something that matters."

once Mormonism adopts that way of viewing things they'll create a rock too big for the world to handle.

Maybe I'm listening to too many Atheist themed podcasts now...but to me Mormonism has never been so man made as it appears to me today.

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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:20 pm 
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grindael wrote:
We have known for a long time that Joseph stole material from others and claimed that it was all his own "revelation".

Apologists could claim that each and every source that Joseph borrowed from was inspired by God as a preparation for Joseph's syncretic prophesying abilities. While this position would not be supported by Church Authorities, it could be used as a future fallback should that prove necessary.

This potentially could be used in tandem with the defense that all bothersome historical details were planted by the Adversary to confound the faithful.

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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:36 pm 
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moksha wrote:
grindael wrote:
We have known for a long time that Joseph stole material from others and claimed that it was all his own "revelation".

Apologists could claim that each and every source that Joseph borrowed from was inspired by God as a preparation for Joseph's syncretic prophesying abilities. While this position would not be supported by Church Authorities, it could be used as a future fallback should that prove necessary.

This potentially could be used in tandem with the defense that all bothersome historical details were planted by the Adversary to confound the faithful.

The apologists can get very creative.


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Stem wrote:
hah...Sometimes I wonder if we're too hard on Joseph Smith. I mean if he took resources all around him, copied them down, reworked them to some extent and...

Imagine what Joseph could have accomplished if he had Google at his disposal. He could have incorporated wisdom from the Vedas, the sutras of Buddha, the Poetic Edda, and the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám.

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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:55 pm 
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Arggg I broke one of my personal rules and started to read through the MD&D thread on this same subject and now I’m regretting that decision. I honestly want to punch one of those TBM posters in the face. OM Freaking god, Smith plagiarized and yet they are completely ok with it. They’re apologizing it all away much like the fraudulent Book of Abraham saying he used the biblical commentary like he did the papyrus as a catalyst for revelation. God damit, no he didn’t he ____ plagiarized. Why is everything so ____ squishy and pliable in Mormonism? God I absolutely hate that ____ board.

PS to add: Stem posted this link from a blog, very interesting. Smith unknowingly “cough cough” translated Mathew 26 of the JST twice...the differences between the two so called inspired translations is stark and telling. Just more evidence he made the whole thing up.

Link : https://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/tw ... scripture/

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"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
OM Freaking god, Smith plagiarized and yet they are completely ok with it. They’re apologizing it all away much like the fraudulent Book of Abraham saying he used the biblical commentary like he did the papyrus as a catalyst for revelation.

So predictable. It is very easy to rationalize and defend anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:53 pm 
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DoubtingThomas wrote:
So predictable. It is very easy to rationalize and defend anything.

Especially when you start with your conclusion and bend all conflicting evidence till it supports that preformed conclusion

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"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:27 am 
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Having listened to the podcast a couple of take-aways and observations.

When someone properly researched elements of the back story of the Church put out by the Church, it always fails such scrutiny.

There is an inbuilt fear mechanism within the membership that stops people being honest with their views and questions. That mechanism of control through fear is driven both informally (fellow members disapproval and shunning) and formally (you’re not getting your degree).

The leadership of the Church are sat on their hands, refusing to take the n cessation action to remove the dishonesty from the taught narrative.

As an aside - I think Bill falls into leading the witness a little too much - on occasion the question felt like a speech. More pronounced towards the end of the podcast than the beginning and may have been driven by time pressures, but I got the strong impression Bill had specific conclusions he wanted Hayley to reach.

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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:14 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
Arggg I broke one of my personal rules and started to read through the MD&D thread on this same subject and now I’m regretting that decision. I honestly want to punch one of those TBM posters in the face. OM Freaking god, Smith plagiarized and yet they are completely ok with it. They’re apologizing it all away much like the fraudulent Book of Abraham saying he used the biblical commentary like he did the papyrus as a catalyst for revelation. God damit, no he didn’t he ____ plagiarized. Why is everything so ____ squishy and pliable in Mormonism? God I absolutely hate that ____ board.

PS to add: Stem posted this link from a blog, very interesting. Smith unknowingly “cough cough” translated Mathew 26 of the JST twice...the differences between the two so called inspired translations is stark and telling. Just more evidence he made the whole thing up.

Link : https://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/tw ... scripture/


I felt a sting of sadness when reading this. I've never been able to get them all up in arms quite like you did. Wish you could still post over there. I know it's probably better for you this way.


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:16 am 
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moksha wrote:
Imagine what Joseph could have accomplished if he had Google at his disposal. He could have incorporated wisdom from the Vedas, the sutras of Buddha, the Poetic Edda, and the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám.


The thought helps after the sadness I felt from reading Craig's post. Fewf!


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 Post subject: Re: Josephs Inspired Bible Translation was actually a plagia
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:51 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
I honestly want to punch one of those TBM posters in the face. Why is everything so ____ squishy and pliable in Mormonism? God I absolutely hate that ____ board.

Actually, I find the acceptance shown by MD&D, in Joseph's use of outside religious scholarship, to be rather Christ-like. Mercy and forbearance is where it is at. Much better welcome with open arms than to deny with closed ears.

So much better in fact, that it might be a good time for that board to reexamine the diligent work Joseph put into the Kinderhook Plates. Even though it ended up being an unfinished work, Joseph's productivity, enthusiasm, and creative are worthy of that same spirit of acceptance rather than denial.

Joseph was doing what he did best: He was adding new and novel material to his faith tradition and the tradition was enriched by these additions. Just think what Joseph could have added with Martin Luther Kings' I Have a Dream speech, the Serenity Prayer, and the Desiderata. Many excellent Sacrament talks could have resulted from these inclusions.

Goeth placidly amid thy noise and haste,
and remembereth what peace there may beeth in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
beeth on good terms with all persons.
Speaketh your truth quietly and clearly;
and listeneth to others,
even thy lesser brethren and women
they too have their story.

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