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 Post subject: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Scholar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:38 am 
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"Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Scholar"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzBT7sjDlGA"

I haven't seen the video yet, but I think it is going to be good. Hopefully they compare the origins of Christianity and Mormonism. Both Christianity and Mormonism started as revelation cults.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:58 am 
Sunbeam

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Will someone let me know if it's good? Sometimes I get a visceral reaction to Dehlin's interview style and I couldn't handle it if he was cringe-y with my favorite New Testament scholar.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 am 
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Tuna_Surprise wrote:
Will someone let me know if it's good? Sometimes I get a visceral reaction to Dehlin's interview style and I couldn't handle it if he was cringe-y with my favorite New Testament scholar.


Dehlin's questions were terrible. He was asking Bart about the Book of Abraham and I was all like "What the Hell!". I thought Dehlin and Bart were going to discuss the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins, but that wasn't the case at all.

Don't watch the interview. I want my hour back.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:33 am 
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DoubtingThomas wrote:
Dehlin's questions were terrible. He was asking Bart about the Book of Abraham and I was all like "What the Hell!". I thought Dehlin and Bart were going to discuss the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins, but that wasn't the case at all.

Don't watch the interview. I want my hour back.

Doubting Thomas, perhaps the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins are so general and obvious that not much is there to discuss. Maybe that thought misses something. You could volunteer something to discuss on the matter without the help of these two.

I did not make it very far into the discussion. Your reaction discouraged me and Dehlin is too thick with Mormon pious talk for my taste.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:52 am 
Sunbeam

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huckelberry wrote:
Doubting Thomas, perhaps the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins are so general and obvious that not much is there to discuss. Maybe that thought misses something. You could volunteer something to discuss on the matter without the help of these two.

I did not make it very far into the discussion. Your reaction discouraged me and Dehlin is too thick with Mormon pious talk for my taste.

That's not true!!! I've been listening to Ehrman's new book on the Triumph of Christianity and I could think of a thousand questions to ask him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:59 am 
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Tuna_Surprise wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
Doubting Thomas, perhaps the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins are so general and obvious that not much is there to discuss. Maybe that thought misses something. You could volunteer something to discuss on the matter without the help of these two.

I did not make it very far into the discussion. Your reaction discouraged me and Dehlin is too thick with Mormon pious talk for my taste.

That's not true!!! I've been listening to Ehrman's new book on the Triumph of Christianity and I could think of a thousand questions to ask him.

I made my comment hoping to hear the questions. There are quite a few people here who have read Erhman's books and are as familiar with Mormon history as this Dahlin fellow(and far far more than Ehrman would be)


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:35 pm 
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DoubtingThomas wrote:
Tuna_Surprise wrote:
Will someone let me know if it's good? Sometimes I get a visceral reaction to Dehlin's interview style and I couldn't handle it if he was cringe-y with my favorite New Testament scholar.


Dehlin's questions were terrible. He was asking Bart about the Book of Abraham and I was all like "What the Hell!". I thought Dehlin and Bart were going to discuss the similarities between Christian and Mormon origins, but that wasn't the case at all.

Don't watch the interview. I want my hour back.


It is not the greatest interview. If you know Erhman already you won't find much here new.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:46 pm 
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I think Dehlin was in a bit over his head on this. Had he been familiar with Ehrman’s work he would have been able to ask more probing and relevant questions. His questions were not worthy of Ehrman’s time. It was almost embarrassing. He missed an opportunity to explore the implications of Ehrman’s scholarship regarding New Testament Scripture, Christology, etc. for Mormonism. It would have been interesting to hear Ehrman’s comments on the subject of Biblical plagiarism in the Book of Mormon , for example. Disappointing.

John, don’t try to interview a world class biblical scholar using the same style as you do your “everyday” guest from the Mormon world.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:09 pm 
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You guys are being pretty harsh. Dehlin’s approach was from the perspective that his audience was unfamiliar with Ehrmans books. So he was actually introducing his Mormon stories audience to Ehrman. Many of Dehlin’s questions were quite rudimentary, true but probably appropriate given the tight schedule. For anyone who has read ehrmans books this was a refresher. They covered 7 books in an hour. A nearly impossible feat.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Thanks for the heads up. I haven't listened to Mormon Stories in years and this won't be the time to restart.

Dehlin has never been a good interviewer, especially when interviewing people on facts, doctrine, or history. Dehlin has always been more interested in social issues and interviews on those subjects tend to be a bit better.

Also, Ehrman needs to go back to scholarly work; his popularizing well has run completely dry. Most of his historical popularizing has been derivative and not based on any scholarly work he has done. For popularizing historical Jesus and 1st century Christianity, E.P. Sanders is every bit as lucid, but Sanders has made real contributions to scholarship on these issues. His "Paul and Palestinian Judaism" is probably one of the most cited works in all of English scholarship on those subjects in the last 50 years.

I think he should get back to what he was trained in, textual criticism. Now would actually be a good time to do this because of the new text critical methods called CBGM coming out of Germany. As far as I know, Ehrman has not touched or addressed that. His "Text of the New Testament", co-written with Metzger, is still the standard work in English. I'm guessing he could write a few more books on that topic. As it stands only one of his popular books, Misquoting Jesus, actually deals with the topic he is expert on.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Aristotle Smith wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't listened to Mormon Stories in years and this won't be the time to restart.

Dehlin has never been a good interviewer, especially when interviewing people on facts, doctrine, or history. Dehlin has always been more interested in social issues and interviews on those subjects tend to be a bit better.


Dehlin is proof that practice doesn't always make perfect. I was really looking forward to the interview with Lex De Azevedo and listened to it with my wife on a car trip, and this was her first exposure to Dehlin's style and even she commented on how terrible the interview was. De Azevedo was full of fascinating stories about his life, but Dehlin's comments and questions continually veered from surprise about things he should have known about to non sequiturs that continually tried to corner Lex on basic LDS beliefs.

Maybe interviewing is much harder than it looks (I've certainly never done a podcast interview), but I would have hoped for some improvement after all these years.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Aristotle Smith wrote:
Also, Ehrman needs to go back to scholarly work; his popularizing well has run completely dry.

I like it when someone brings information to the masses. Doesn't matter to me whether Neil deGrasse Tyson is presenting his own research, I appreciate it just the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:08 am 
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Sometimes I listen to Mormon stories and have an enjoyable experience (I don't pretend snobbiness about the interviewer). Sometimes I go and it's about as bad as it gets. Over the years I've dropped in and out of interest in the whole enterprise due to this lack of consistency.

I've liked Erhman's works and have read nearly all the books they mention (Lost Christianities was the first of his books I read) so I was interested what he might add in a Mormon context. But it was a horrible interview. John didn't have a clue what he was talking about. And I agree with another, why in the world did John end with some question about the Book of Abraham? There was a lot that could have been brought up. There were a lot of ways to go. It just wasn't very interesting, particularly if you are even vaguely familiar with Ehrman, which it appears John is not. Its like someone set up the interview and John showed up without any preparation. He should probably consider a different host, a guest host or something, when it's outside his wheelhouse. That seems obvious.

all right, I mean, it is just Mormonstories. he's the talent that built it, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 am 
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moksha wrote:
Aristotle Smith wrote:
Also, Ehrman needs to go back to scholarly work; his popularizing well has run completely dry.

I like it when someone brings information to the masses. Doesn't matter to me whether Neil deGrasse Tyson is presenting his own research, I appreciate it just the same.


The thing is, the information is there quite readily for the masses, and some by very decent popularizers that even Ehrman would recommend (Harold Greenlee's book on New Testament textual criticism, for instance). I don't know anything about Tyson, but Ehrman is more of a sensationalist than a popularizer. He certainly knows what people would prefer to read.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:58 am 
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Stem wrote:
Sometimes I listen to Mormon stories and have an enjoyable experience (I don't pretend snobbiness about the interviewer). Sometimes I go and it's about as bad as it gets. Over the years I've dropped in and out of interest in the whole enterprise due to this lack of consistency.

I've liked Erhman's works and have read nearly all the books they mention (Lost Christianities was the first of his books I read) so I was interested what he might add in a Mormon context. But it was a horrible interview. John didn't have a clue what he was talking about. And I agree with another, why in the world did John end with some question about the Book of Abraham? There was a lot that could have been brought up. There were a lot of ways to go. It just wasn't very interesting, particularly if you are even vaguely familiar with Ehrman, which it appears John is not. Its like someone set up the interview and John showed up without any preparation. He should probably consider a different host, a guest host or something, when it's outside his wheelhouse. That seems obvious.

all right, I mean, it is just Mormonstories. he's the talent that built it, I guess.


The most recent one I listened to was with Tara Westover. I found it interesting to hear him talk to someone who was a bigger celebrity than him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:12 am 
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Aristotle Smith wrote:
I think he should get back to what he was trained in, textual criticism. Now would actually be a good time to do this because of the new text critical methods called CBGM coming out of Germany. As far as I know, Ehrman has not touched or addressed that. His "Text of the New Testament", co-written with Metzger, is still the standard work in English. I'm guessing he could write a few more books on that topic. As it stands only one of his popular books, Misquoting Jesus, actually deals with the topic he is expert on.


I was talking with a student of his at Chapel Hill and they intimated to me that Ehrman's was far more interested in the topic of Pseudepigrapha than textual criticism proper, so I doubt we'll see anything new from him in that area.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormon Stories #904: Dr. Bart Ehrman - New Testament Sch
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Whatever the case, Dehlin is trying. Apparently he has a second interview up with Dr. Coe--responding to Dr Sorenson. As I recall there was some interesting parts in the first interview, so I suppose I"ll listen. If I come back here complaining about the stupid host again...well...suffer it to be so. I can't help but try.


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