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 Post subject: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:26 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:41 pm
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I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:30 pm 
God
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My dad went through this when one of my sisters was married. He kept finding things we “needed” to do (like getting the car washed) so that we didn’t have to wait outside the temple for the happy couple to emerge.

Yeah, it sucks. Sorry you have to experience the exclusion.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:39 pm 
God
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aznative wrote:
I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.


Well. It could be worse.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:11 am 
God

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aznative wrote:
I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.


I’m not sure what to contribute here.
How will you be enduring the sealing if you’re not at it?

The tough love part of me would suggest:
You get to make your own choices, but you don’t get to control the consequences I’m afraid.
It’s your sons wedding, he gets to choose where to hold it.
It may feel crap that you’re missing it, but it’s obviously less crap than you would feel doing the things to get yourself into the temple to witness his marriage. Ultimately we all choose what suits us best, what we can best live with. You have chosen what suits you best.

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“A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.”
― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:58 am 
God
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Hey, I'm sure they considered you and others enough to have a "ring ceremony" right?

See things are good.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:58 am 
God
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aznative wrote:
I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.


That sucks, I have very few Mormons in my family so I am kind of lucky. When my sibling got married, my extended family was shocked they couldn't see his marriage.

A huge divide between my folks and the extended family began after converting to Mormonism. The extended family didn't understand the exclusive behaviors of Mormons.

I am kidding with what I am about to say...you have a 50% chance each married child will get divorced. You have a 33-66% chance each child will leave Mormonism. If you're gambling, the odds aren't bad that you may get a crack at a non-Mormon marriage.

Sucks the way the Church handles temple marriages.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:21 am 
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I’m with aznative on this one. I deeply resent the way that the LDS Church handles weddings. The fact that my dad was excluded from my wedding still burns after all these years. It is one thing to speak of choices, and I accept my responsibility for mine, but this must be tempered by an awareness of the power of authority and tradition in shaping what people notice and feel free to do.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 am 
God
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aznative wrote:
I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.

Sorry, aznative....this part sucks. I still have children who are active and I know I have this to look forward to. Ugh.

My advice?

If you can, do not even show up early at the temple before the sealing. My husband and I have vowed that we will never be sitting outside the temple (or in the foyer) as members of our family and our Mormon friends file past us looking sorrowfully at us because they are allowed in and we have to sit outside like a couple of unworthy losers.

We will tell our kids to let us know what time to be there afterwards for pictures or we may just wait and arrive at the reception later for pictures. We will never sit outside the temple while someone we love is inside getting married without us present.

If that works for you, that's what I'd recommend doing to help with some of the pain and awkwardness.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:08 am 
1st Quorum of Seventy

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My in-laws flew in from France for our temple wedding. Being non-members, they waited outside the temple, and later that day we did a ring ceremony at the chapel. I feel sick thinking about their experience.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:09 am 
God
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Madison54 wrote:
aznative wrote:
I'll be enduring the first of what is expected to be 5 sealing's for our first child getting married in the temple here soon.

When did I start posting at FAIR, and then the View from the Foyer, then Further Light and Knowledge interspersed with visits here? 2004? I thought for sure we would be beyond the cult by now. But we're not. Now, I get to be absent to see my son married.

____ I'm hating life right now.

Sorry, aznative....this part sucks. I still have children who are active and I know I have this to look forward to. Ugh.

My advice?

If you can, do not even show up early at the temple before the sealing. My husband and I have vowed that we will never be sitting outside the temple (or in the foyer) as members of our family and our Mormon friends file past us looking sorrowfully at us because they are allowed in and we have to sit outside like a couple of unworthy losers.

We will tell our kids to let us know what time to be there afterwards for pictures or we may just wait and arrive at the reception later for pictures. We will never sit outside the temple while someone we love is inside getting married without us present.

If that works for you, that's what I'd recommend doing to help with some of the pain and awkwardness.


I think that’s excellent advice.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:11 am 
God
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Yes, avoid the shame room at all costs. Don't give them any power and remind yourself how much time and money your family members are wasting in misplaced loyalties. Maybe you can have the caring condescending attitude for them that they are encouraged to have for you?

My nephew was married a while ago in the Salt Lake City temple and my son and I toured the most holy mall across the street while waiting. I had my mother text me when the ceremony was complete and they were outside for pictures so we wouldn't miss the important part. I had a coffee and my son looked at all the new stuff from Apple. We made the most of it.

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"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:20 am 
Deacon

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:13 pm
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My dad waited outside when I got married. Years later, I apologized. He responded that he was ok, because he knew that I was doing what I believed in. The reality was that it hurt him. He was only ok with it because he had since had time to reflect on and come to terms with it. He knew enough about Mormonism to know what it meant and that we weren't trying to be exclusive, condescending, etc.

With regard to the advice above to not even wait outside the temple, I think it should be approached on a case by case basis. Sometimes you just do things for loved ones even though it's painful. And there are ways to make it less painful. A flask of whisky in the pocket can help.

Fortunately, none of my kids will ever get married in the temple. I have a number of nieces and nephews who will, but I'm perfectly fine missing out on the ceremony. Boring as ____! If you've seen one temple wedding, you've seen them all. While I wouldn't enjoy hanging out outside, it's still better than having to sit through one of those things. And I'm perfectly fine just being the drunk uncle at the reception.

(Speaking of being the drunk uncle, one of my nephews had his reception held at Sundance. I skipped out a few times to stop in at the bar there. They laughed and pointed out that they always get one or two escapees for each reception.)


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:57 pm 
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I am so sorry..I walked outside Temple gates with my mom and brother/sisters. She cried..we all cried..we were the best Mormons..enduring. Being true to yourself though..that will get you through so many things..Hugs..Candygal.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Don’t believe for a second you have not been considered by The pyramidion. They have already begun plans in several locations by LDS temples near you, to provide sufficient opportunities for you to shop ‘til your little (or big) bootie drops, as you wait for your loved ones to choose religion over you, as they’ve been carefully groomed to do. City Creek, Oahu, and many others, including the beginning of a shopping center in Arizona are proof that you have not been forgotten! They may soon reach the goal of having a LDS shopping center available to all profitable members.

”When it came time to cut the mall's pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered, "One, two, three, let's go shopping!" We all know that Jesus would never have overthrown and whipped people for using temples to make money and break up families. :rolleyes: :evil: :question:

It hurts. Forgive them for they know not what they do.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:52 pm 
God
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Madison54 wrote:
Sorry, aznative....this part sucks. I still have children who are active and I know I have this to look forward to. Ugh.

My advice?
...


Bad advice aznative, hey you need and deserve the full treatment here. Who knows, perhaps there is an afterlife and perhaps you will be able to testify, with the video played of you being shamed, against those who enforced such a cruel policy.

Go for the full experience I say, hell I was dumb enough to do it for my three childrens weddings.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:06 pm 
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[Partial deletion by author.]

While I have not pointed this fact out to those involved, I may well do so at some time in the future. It will be interesting to see how they justify ranking their voluntary contributions to a cult above an opportunity for their grandchildren to attend college without accumulating a near lifelong burden of debt (or indeed to attend college at all).

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David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Last edited by DrW on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:03 pm 
God
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DrW wrote:
While I have not pointed this fact out to those involved, I may well do so at some time in the future. It will be interesting to see how they justify ranking their voluntary contributions to a cult above an opportunity for their grandchildren to attend college without accumulating a near lifelong burden of debt (or indeed to attend college at all).


Do you remember a few years back, that video encouraging 'grand parents' to disinherit their wayward posterity passing their inheritance to the church instead.

Do you really think sharing that information with them will have any effect on them?


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:52 pm 
God
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RockSlider wrote:
DrW wrote:
While I have not pointed this fact out to those involved, I may well do so at some time in the future. It will be interesting to see how they justify ranking their voluntary contributions to a cult above an opportunity for their grandchildren to attend college without accumulating a near lifelong burden of debt (or indeed to attend college at all).


Do you remember a few years back, that video encouraging 'grand parents' to disinherit their wayward posterity passing their inheritance to the church instead.

Do you really think sharing that information with them will have any effect on them?

Good question.

First response is that the in-laws of the extended family of my generation have come to learn about one another in the intervening years, and seem to get along well when there is an occasion for interaction (which is not often). That is one reason I have not said anything.

Also, I have noticed that a few of them who live outside of Utah have seemed to distance themselves from the Church of late.

Second response would be that I had forgotten about the video you mentioned. Given that this shameless tin cup panhandling really was suggested by the LDS Church at one point, I wouldn't really know what to expect.

Your comment makes me think that the whole thing is probably not worth mentioning because it would likely just embarrass everyone involved, and might engender hard feelings as a result.

It's always a good to keep in mind that one's bitterness should really be directed at the corrupt leadership of the Church and not the hapless individual members.

Thanks for the question, RockSlider. It helped me decide to delete most of the earlier post. I trust that things are going better for you now with regard to your health. Ain't none of us getting any younger.

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David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:53 am 
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Temple Marriage does more to divide families than anything else I can think of in LDS belief.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:49 pm 
CTR B

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:41 pm
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6 more days until I have to sit outside at my sons wedding.

____ cult.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 down, 4 to go
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:12 pm 
God

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aznative wrote:
6 more days until I have to sit outside at my sons wedding.

____ cult.
Ditto.
I hope you get through this okay. Is there anything special that you and your son can do together that would make this time more special for you..?


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