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 Post subject: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:04 pm 
God

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Quote:
SALT LAKE CITY -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could face more lawsuits alleging sexual abuse at the hands of ecclesiastical officials and inaction by authorities within the faith.

Activist groups and church critics said they have been approached recently by alleged abuse victims expressing interest in suing the LDS Church for not responding to their claims.

http://fox13now.com/2018/04/06/lds-chur ... -inaction/

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:09 pm 
God

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church is probably burning records as we speak!
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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:21 pm 
God

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After all of this...how can it get personal with actual members?? The wards need to be involved and upset...not just him/haw around and blame it all on anti Mormons...how do you really reach the people??? I am so pissed.. I can talk to a TBM close friend that will say..all of this is just a bunch of crap ...!


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Watch what I bold and enlarge here. And try to follow the bouncing ball. It'll be a little messy, just roll with it.

Quote:
Utah Code

Page 1

Part 4 Child Abuse or Neglect Reporting Requirements

62A-4a-401 Legislative purpose. It is the purpose of this part to protect the best interests of children, offer protective services to prevent harm to children, stabilize the home environment, preserve family life whenever possible, and encourage cooperation among the states in dealing with the problem of abuse or neglect.

Amended by Chapter 168, 2016 General Session

62A-4a-402 Definitions. As used in this part: (1) "A person responsible for a child's care" means the child's parent, guardian, or other person responsible for the child's care, whether in the same home as the child, a relative's home, a group, family, or center day care facility, a foster care home, or a residential institution. (2) "Subject" or "subject of the report" means any person reported under this part, including, but not limited to, a child, parent, guardian, or other person responsible for a child's care.

Amended by Chapter 299, 2008 General Session

62A-4a-403 Reporting requirements. (1) (a) Except as provided in Subsection (2), when any person including persons licensed under Title 58, Chapter 67, Utah Medical Practice Act, or Title 58, Chapter 31b, Nurse Practice Act, has reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect, or who observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances which would reasonably result in abuse or neglect, that person shall immediately notify the nearest peace officer, law enforcement agency, or office of the division. (b) Upon receipt of the notification described in Subsection (1)(a), the peace officer or law enforcement agency shall immediately notify the nearest office of the division. If an initial report of abuse or neglect is made to the division, the division shall immediately notify the appropriate local law enforcement agency. The division shall, in addition to its own investigation, comply with and lend support to investigations by law enforcement undertaken pursuant to a report made under this section. (2) Subject to Subsection (3), the notification requirements of Subsection (1) do not apply to a clergyman or priest, without the consent of the person making the confession, with regard to any confession made to the clergyman or priest in the professional character of the clergyman or priest in the course of discipline enjoined by the church to which the clergyman or priest belongs, if:

(a) the confession was made directly to the clergyman or priest by the perpetrator; and

(b) the clergyman or priest is, under canon law or church doctrine or practice, bound to maintain the confidentiality of that confession. (3)

(a) When a clergyman or priest receives information about abuse or neglect from any source other than confession of the perpetrator, the clergyman or priest is required to give notification on the basis of that information even though the clergyman or priest may have also received a report of abuse or neglect from the confession of the perpetrator.

Utah Code

Page 2
[b]
(b) Exemption of notification requirements for a clergyman or priest does not exempt a clergyman or priest from any other efforts required by law to prevent further abuse or neglect by the perpetrator.

Amended by Chapter 299, 2008 General Session



https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title62A/Chap ... 000101.pdf

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Explanation: What Utah Code is telling us is that clergy/priests are only exempt from reporting when they receive direct confession from a perp.

If abuse is reported to clergy/priest by any other method besides direct confession, they're mandated by law to report.


Guess where that leaves the Church?

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:34 pm 
Star A

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Explanation: What Utah Code is telling us is that clergy/priests are only exempt from reporting when they receive direct confession from a perp.

If abuse is reported to clergy/priest by any other method besides direct confession, they're mandated by law to report.


Guess where that leaves the Church?


My understanding is that only applies to children and vulnerable adults. It's important that those protections are in place for some of the most vulnerable in society, it's time they were extended to everyone who has been abused.


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:09 am 
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Goldenbrass wrote:
My understanding is that only applies to children and vulnerable adults.

Isn't that everyone?

What is the definition for a "vulnerable adult"? Wouldn't that be anyone who ends up in a situation where they are sexually abused?


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:19 am 
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Madison54 wrote:
Goldenbrass wrote:
My understanding is that only applies to children and vulnerable adults.

Isn't that everyone?

What is the definition for a "vulnerable adult"? Wouldn't that be anyone who ends up in a situation where they are sexually abused?


Good question. There could be a strict definition, like those who would be assigned a legal guardian, etc...


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:21 am 
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Quote:
Utah Code 62A-3-305

Vulnerable adult:
means an elder adult, or an adult who has a mental or physical impairment which substantially affects that person's ability to:

(a)
provide personal protection;

(b)
provide necessities such as food, shelter, clothing, or mental or other health care;

(c)
obtain services necessary for health, safety, or welfare;

(d)
carry out the activities of daily living;

(e)
manage the adult's own financial resources; or

(f)
comprehend the nature and consequences of remaining in a situation of abuse, neglect, or exploitation. See Utah Code 62A-3-301

(2)
When the initial report or subsequent investigation by Adult Protective Services indicates that a criminal offense may have occurred against a vulnerable adult:

(a)
Adult Protective Services shall notify the nearest local law enforcement agency regarding the potential offense; and

(b)
the law enforcement agency may initiate an investigation in cooperation with Adult Protective Services.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Quote:
Utah Code 62A-3-305

Vulnerable adult:
means an elder adult, or an adult who has a mental or physical impairment which substantially affects that person's ability to:

(a)
provide personal protection;

(b)
provide necessities such as food, shelter, clothing, or mental or other health care;

(c)
obtain services necessary for health, safety, or welfare;

(d)
carry out the activities of daily living;

(e)
manage the adult's own financial resources; or

(f)
comprehend the nature and consequences of remaining in a situation of abuse, neglect, or exploitation. See Utah Code 62A-3-301

(2)
When the initial report or subsequent investigation by Adult Protective Services indicates that a criminal offense may have occurred against a vulnerable adult:

(a)
Adult Protective Services shall notify the nearest local law enforcement agency regarding the potential offense; and

(b)
the law enforcement agency may initiate an investigation in cooperation with Adult Protective Services.

Thanks for posting this, Jersey Girl!!


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:32 am 
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Madison54 wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Jersey Girl!!


You bet. I'm not an attorney but I can think of some scenarios where the interpretation of the state code might be of use.

For example, a young missionary candidate comes to the MTC and through whatever methods, discloses early sexual abuse. They are then sexually abused by an authority in the MTC itself.

Is that person a vulnerable adult? It seems to me that a good attorney could work with that.

The person reports to another authority figure that s/he has been sexually abused in that situation and the person receiving the report fails to report.

The person receiving the report might not be considered clergy in that scenario, but if I am not mistaken, Utah State Code reads that any adult receiving the report is compelled by law to report. I also wanted to add the distinction that is spelled out in the law that deals specifically with clergy receiving a report vs clergy receiving confession.

I'm also assuming (and perhaps I shouldn't) that the victims mentioned in the OP who are reporting, were minors when their abuse took place.

I think there could be enough teeth in the law to cover both situations and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if one of the reasons that the Church does settle out of court is to keep people out of jail.

Failure to report is a Class B Misdemeanor in the state of Utah, punishable by fine and time in city or county jail. I read one account (some website) where witness tampering was involved. Witness tampering is (if memory serves) a Class C Felony in Utah and carries with it a punishment of time prison.

So...I don't think the reason that the Church settles out of court is simply to prevent disclosure of it's financials. I think they're trying to avoid a trail of convictions and incarceration.

Again, I am not an attorney but on the surface, it looks like these cases could fly using both the child abuse reporting laws (minors) and definitions of what consitutes a vulnerable adult (missionaries at the MTC).

Sam Young is all over this stuff on the Protect LDS Children Facebook page, bringing truth to light.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Not sure if a Utah jury or set of judges can render an impartial decision in cases involving the LDS Church. Does anyone know if civil cases can be appealed to say, for instance, a federal court in Denver?

I am thinking about the case of Madi Barney who was abused by the BYU Honors and Penitence Committee, only to have a Provo jury find her rapist not guilty because the case involved the Church.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:59 pm 
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The Mckenna Dawson lawsuit demands LDS church change it's reporting policy and others comment that victims need to call police first though those steeped in the morg often find that very hard because they want to trust what their bishop advises.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Try telling the Utah State Supreme Court about the legislative requirements.

They always rule in favor of the Mormon Corporation.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Mormonicious wrote:
Try telling the Utah State Supreme Court about the legislative requirements.

They always rule in favor of the Mormon Corporation.


I see no reason why attornies can't petition the court for a change of venue and squeeze from the other side with a good PR campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:10 pm 
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And what about obstruction of justice?

Smacking myself upside my own head over here.

:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
And what about obstruction of justice?

Smacking myself upside my own head over here.

:rolleyes:


Against the Church or the Court?

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:40 pm 
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What we really need..is a church attorney turned apostate...ooo...ouch...any volunteers??


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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:17 pm 
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candygal wrote:
What we really need..is a church attorney turned apostate...ooo...ouch...any volunteers??


Such an attorney would still be bound by the attorney-client privilege and would still owe duties if loyalty to the church as former client. There are very good attorneys that have experience with suing the LDS church for clergy abuse. Those are the lawyers the victims need, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:23 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Not sure if a Utah jury or set of judges can render an impartial decision in cases involving the LDS Church. Does anyone know if civil cases can be appealed to say, for instance, a federal court in Denver?

I am thinking about the case of Madi Barney who was abused by the BYU Honors and Penitence Committee, only to have a Provo jury find her rapist not guilty because the case involved the Church.


Civil cases can be appealed within the court system they are filed in. Cases filed in state court are appealed to state courts of appeal and those filed in federal court to federal courts of appeal. The US Supreme Court can hear appeals from state courts. I’m not aware of any mechanism that would allow an appeal from a Utah state trial court to be heard by the federal court of appeals.

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 Post subject: Re: And there’s more.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:01 pm 
Star A

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Madison54 wrote:
Goldenbrass wrote:
My understanding is that only applies to children and vulnerable adults.

Isn't that everyone?

What is the definition for a "vulnerable adult"? Wouldn't that be anyone who ends up in a situation where they are sexually abused?


This was a brilliant question. I've been busy keeping the Sabbath unholy but I think Jersey Girl gave a brilliant reply.

Vulnerable adult wouldn't apply to everyone abused but like Jersey Girl said I think an argument could be made that an adult who was subjected to child abuse and therefore was unable to protect themselves without assistance and counseling could argue that point through their lawyer. Whether it would be successful or not is a matter for each case.

In McKenna's case I think it's relevant that Joseph Bishop was counseling groups of damaged sister missionaries who had a background of abuse at the MTC according to her testimony. Many of those girls could also qualify under that definition. Abuse victims are shown to be at much higher risk of being abused again by other predators. Many abuse victims "act out" and abusers know they can use that to attempt to discredit them if their abuse comes to light or they can try to conflate the earlier abuse with their own and claim the survivor is just "confused". Many abuse survivors need professional counseling, sometimes for the rest of their lives, to help them recognize red flags that most people who haven't been subjected to that kind of abuse are able to see more clearly. I asked whether this could apply in this case in an earlier post on this board for that reason. I wouldn't claim to know if it meets the threshold or not, but I can see a compelling argument for it.

I can also see why her lawyers might not want to argue it in a court case too. When credibility issues are concerned society and our legal systems still have a long way to go in catching up when it comes to understanding these issues. Really I think the same protections that apply to children and vulnerable adults should apply to everyone.


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