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 Post subject: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:08 am 
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In case you missed it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... d4506521bc


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:14 am 
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I'm certain this isn't an original thought but does this make baptisms for the dead "Non-consensual immortality"?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:20 am 
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Thanks Water Dog.

From the link.

Quote:
The Mormon church faced more criticism Monday about its approach to sexual abuse after a top leader praised the #MeToo movement but referred to sexual misconduct as “non-consensual immorality,” a remark that some say could be interpreted as victim blaming.

Quentin L. Cook, a member of a top church governing body, made the comment this weekend in the only mention of the topic during a two-day Mormon conference despite the church facing heavy scrutiny over accusations that a former prominent missionary leader sexually assaulted two women in the 1980s.

Cook was giving a speech about righteousness Sunday, days after The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced updated guidelines for reporting sexual abuse.


“It is commendable that non-consensual immorality has been exposed and denounced,” said Cook, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “Such non-consensual immorality is against the laws of God and of society.


More spin from an institution trying to avoid describing what Bishop did as assault.

He obviously engaged in "non-consensual immorality".

/boggle

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Last edited by Fence Sitter on Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:13 pm 
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How does an intelligent elderly adult make such a huge mistake??? There needs to be a sex class for all apostles/prophets/seers and revelators.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:53 pm 
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I wonder how many women Elder Quentin L. Cook has abused in his lifetime? Were they consensual or non-consensual?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
I wonder how many women Elder Quentin L. Cook has abused in his lifetime? Were they consensual or non-consensual?

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A manual rep point from Candy gal..I know you guys don't have em...or believe em..but hey...one has to wonder at the curious and uneducated together.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:48 am 
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Girls that are raped are dirty. They are like gum that has already been chewed. They are licked cupcakes. They have lost their chastity and their virtue.

The dirty Book of Mormon told me so:

Moroni 9:9 wrote:
And notwithstanding this great abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners; and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue—

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:54 am 
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Women who are raped are weak cowards before the Lord. They have succumbed to the sins of Non-consensual Immorality and have brought shame on themselves or worse, upon the church.

Church President Heber J. Grant wrote:
Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation when there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle


Church President David O. McKay wrote:
Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please, young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives.


Spencer W Kimball wrote:
There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or a daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity – realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:27 am 
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I have done my pie-chart and collected genealogical records. A cousin and I are comparing results. There may be a story to tell.

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In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:12 am 
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For those interested, Cinepro started a similar thread yesterday that quickly went five pages and then was shut down.

MAD thread "Elder Cook Wins Award for Worst Euphemism Ever.
Kudos to Cinepro on the title.

The results were predictable with the same posters defending everything and anything that comes out of Salt Lake City.

SMAC is especially unable to see that defending the church as if he is it's lawyer and it is just any other organization actually does more damage than good.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
For those interested, Cinepro started a similar thread yesterday that quickly went five pages and then was shut down.

MAD thread "Elder Cook Wins Award for Worst Euphemism Ever.
Kudos to Cinepro on the title.

The results were predictable with the same posters defending everything and anything that comes out of Salt Lake City.

SMAC is especially unable to see that defending the church as if he is it's lawyer and it is just any other organization actually does more damage than good.


His defenses are so obviously specious sometimes that it boggles the mind. He asked me earlier what "lying for the lord" was as if he had never heard of the concept.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Are Bishop Interviews now an example of non-consensual legal disclosure?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:32 pm 
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FWIW, the talk is now online. Here's the full quote. Interestingly, the full quote expands on the idea enough that it renders moot some of the defenses given for it at MAD.

Interestingly, the footnote for "nonconsensual immorality" refers directly to the #MeToo movement!

Prepare to Meet God

Quote:
During my lifetime, worldly issues and concerns have moved from one extreme to another—from frivolous and trivial pursuits to serious immorality. It is commendable that nonconsensual immorality has been exposed and denounced.19 Such nonconsensual immorality is against the laws of God and of society. Those who understand God’s plan should also oppose consensual immorality, which is also a sin. The family proclamation to the world warns “that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring [or, for that matter, anyone else] … will one day stand accountable before God.”20

[19]This has occurred in the #MeToo movement.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:37 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
FWIW, the talk is now online. Here's the full quote. Interestingly, the full quote expands on the idea enough that it renders moot some of the defenses given for it at MAD.

Interestingly, the footnote for "nonconsensual immorality" refers directly to the #MeToo movement!

Prepare to Meet God

Quote:
During my lifetime, worldly issues and concerns have moved from one extreme to another—from frivolous and trivial pursuits to serious immorality. It is commendable that nonconsensual immorality has been exposed and denounced.19 Such nonconsensual immorality is against the laws of God and of society. Those who understand God’s plan should also oppose consensual immorality, which is also a sin. The family proclamation to the world warns “that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring [or, for that matter, anyone else] … will one day stand accountable before God.”20

[19]This has occurred in the #MeToo movement.



Footnotes? Who adds those? If the me too movement was important to bring up, why not do it in the talk as given to the membership?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:25 am 
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Quote:
“It is commendable that non-consensual immorality has been exposed and denounced,” said Cook, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. “Such non-consensual immorality is against the laws of God and of society.


Said with a straight face by a so-called Apostle of an Organization who’s first priority is to make sure non-consensual immorality perpetrated by a Church Leader isn’t publicly exposed and denounced, and where knowledge of such non-consensual immorality exists they first blame the victim for it.(1)

(1) See Joseph L. Bishop. BYU Rape Scandal. Etc.

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Last edited by I have a question on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:36 am 
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Quote:
During my lifetime, worldly issues and concerns have moved from one extreme to another—from frivolous and trivial pursuits to serious immorality. It is commendable that nonconsensual immorality rape has been exposed and denounced. This has occurred in the #MeToo movement. Such nonconsensual immorality rape is against the laws of God and of society. Those who understand God’s plan should also oppose consensual immorality sex that is not between one man and woman, who are lawfully wedded to each other, which is also a sin. The family proclamation to the world warns “that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring [or, for that matter, anyone else] … will one day stand accountable before God.”


Did I get that right? Anyone who participates in an act of sex that is not between one man and woman, who are lawfully wedded to each other, will one day stand accountable before God?

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:52 am 
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Has the Church specifically denounced Joseph L Bishop yet?

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― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:52 am 
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CameronMO wrote:
[
Did I get that right? Anyone who participates in an act of sex that is not between one man and woman, who are lawfully wedded to each other, will one day stand accountable before God?


I believe that was not the intent though it can be interpreted that way.

What is very clear here is we are seeing the efforts of a elderly male dominated organization trying to acknowledge that there are systemic problems with men abusing women in society. (I know, shocker right?)But they are doing it in a way that makes it very evident men are the ones deciding how to approach this problem, using the very same old boys network that protected men from such accusations in the past and present. So they come out with this euphemism that makes rape and assault sound less offensive. "Look Joseph Bishop was guilty of "Non-consensual immorality". And the faithful can walk away without hearing words like "rape", "assault", and other such frank talk.

They don't get it. Until it is common to hear these problems labeled in the most horrifying ways by top leadership itself, lower echelon leadership making disciplinary decisions on male perpetrators will continue to protect them. After all, it is a lot easier to excuse someone for "non-consensual immorality" than it is for rape.

Once again top church leadership is trying to cover their asses, protect the institution and spin their problems in the most positive light possible. For a religion that teaches repentance includes confession, this is hypocrisy.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:54 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Has the Church specifically denounced Joseph L Bishop yet?


Not that I have seen. The victim has filed a lawsuit so I am sure there will be no comment from the Church about Bishop from here on out.

What we are seeing is the Church reacting as if it is being led by lawyers instead of a prophet.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am 
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We thank thee, O God, for a lawyer
To guide us in these latter days.
We thank thee for sending the court system
To lighten our minds with its rays.
We thank thee for every legal appeal
Bestowed by thy bounteous hand.
We feel it a pleasure to serve thee
And love to obey the law of the land.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-consensual Immorality
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:00 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
I have a question wrote:
Has the Church specifically denounced Joseph L Bishop yet?


Not that I have seen. The victim has filed a lawsuit so I am sure there will be no comment from the Church about Bishop from here on out.

What we are seeing is the Church reacting as if it is being led by lawyers instead of a prophet.


So, despite the 30 years of ignoring her complaints, despite his confession in December, despite Cooks General Conference assertion that non-consensual immorality is denounced and not tolerated...AND The Church moved heaven and earth to try and make sure it wasn’t exposed....Joseph L Bishop remains undenounced, undisciplined and a member of the Church.

So at this point the only person the Church has publicly denounced....is the victim.

Yep, led by Lawyers.

This situation is one of the most staggering collective abuses of Church authority that I have ever seen.
And it continues...

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