Technology is changing missionary work...

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_Paracelsus
_Emeritus
Posts: 503
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _Paracelsus »

moksha wrote:Through pure honesty, by mentioning that the vow of mandatory disembowelment is no longer part of the Temple Ceremony.
As Henry VIII of England never ordered to beheading any of his wives.

He loved them as Joseph Smith loved his other 38 wives as Emma...
Without Blood court options.
I know of nothing poorer
Under the sun, than you, you Gods!
...
Should I honour you? Why?

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe : Prometheus
_moksha
_Emeritus
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _moksha »

RockSlider wrote:
moksha wrote:Through pure honesty, by mentioning that the vow of mandatory disembowelment is no longer part of the Temple Ceremony.

Nope, I think that one still falls under anti-mormon lies ... as far as the Missionaries are trained.

These missionaries would be doing themselves and any prospective converts a disservice by relying on apologetics. A straightforward honest answer would mean neither the missionary nor the convert needs to stumble over that particular tangled web at a later date.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _Dr Exiled »

I wonder if the Mormon version of Jesus could convert anyone unless he too lied for himself? In any event, the whole religion and Jesus himself is based on myth, so why not tell interesting stories? I think the least the Q15 could do is make it entertaining. The cost of Mormonism is so high, the members deserve something interesting and inventive for their time and money.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_candygal
_Emeritus
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _candygal »

Exiled wrote:I wonder if the Mormon version of Jesus could convert anyone unless he too lied for himself? In any event, the whole religion and Jesus himself is based on myth, so why not tell interesting stories? I think the least the Q15 could do is make it entertaining. The cost of Mormonism is so high, the members deserve something interesting and inventive for their time and money.

:razz: I have never thought of this...always thought of the Mormon God..but the Mormon Jesus..He seems so different than what he is interpreted to be in the Mormon world. Thanks..it is a weird..but you have given me a lot to think about.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

moksha wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:"We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

Is this true?

How does a missionary get out of that conversation?

- Doc

Through pure honesty, by mentioning that the vow of mandatory disembowelment is no longer part of the Temple Ceremony.


You know. I actually think you're on the right track here. People are pretty malleable when it comes to god-belief. And if the missionaries were to own it, and then put a realistic spin on it along the lines of:

Missionary - "Well, one of the interesting things about the restored gospel is God doesn't spoon feed it to us, but rather He tries to use the tools of understanding that are available to us in the here and now in order to bring about His work. Those folks couldn't possibly conceive of advanced doctrines and truths so we believe God used symbolism that was relevant and understandable to them for their time.

Think of it this way. If you were to attend a math class and the professor just simply began a prolonged lecture on deep theoretical physics and quantum theory, what are the odds an average Joe like myself could understand it? Probably pretty low. What if the professor reduced his lecture down to very understandable terms and used, say, an animated YouTube video with imagery that was both relatable to me and this particular era of human history? This is kind of how we approach the temple. We simply believe God gave these truths to us and over time He tweaks it a bit so every generation can understand the spiritual truths He's given us through the endowment."

crap.

I may have just given them some training material...

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Physics Guy
_Emeritus
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _Physics Guy »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:If you were to attend a math class and the professor just simply began a prolonged lecture on deep theoretical physics and quantum theory, what are the odds an average Joe like myself could understand it? Probably pretty low. What if the professor reduced his lecture down to very understandable terms and used, say, an animated YouTube video with imagery that was both relatable to me and this particular era of human history?

I take you to be suggesting a general defence that can be offered for any religious teachings that sound too primitive for a modern audience. The defence is to say that the original presentation of the teaching was primitive, because it was made for primitive times, but the real meaning of the teaching is not at all primitive.

It seems to me that this is the basic point of view that any educated modern person has to take, in order to follow any religion that began in pre-modern times. At least up to a point it works well. You can respect the old writings, and even accept them as true in significant ways, in much the same way that you can accept the partial truths of outmoded scientific theories, and respect their discoverers, even though you know the old theories were missing a lot.

If you're a religious person who takes this kind of view, a lot of enthusiastic critiques by non-believers are just kicking straw men—or even soap-bubble men. Why would anyone ever imagine that I believed that? Unfortunately, though, there really still are plenty of enthusiastic defences of those very same soap-bubble men, earnestly made by fundamentalist believers for whom the Renaissance was something that happened to other people.

Being interested in religion but not in fundamentalism is kind of like being a fan of an obscure novel whose porn-film version is much better known. You keep having to explain yourself to anti-porn activists who have never even heard of the novel. And you keep meeting fans of the film.
_honorentheos
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Re: Technology is changing missionary work...

Post by _honorentheos »

Physics Guy wrote:Being interested in religion but not in fundamentalism is kind of like being a fan of an obscure novel whose porn-film version is much better known. You keep having to explain yourself to anti-porn activists who have never even heard of the novel. And you keep meeting fans of the film.

That's brilliant. :biggrin:
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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