What are church property firearm carry rules?

[_moinmoin]

I carried at church. In my experience, whatever rules the church has in these regards, are ignored. As are the state laws. In many states churches are a safe zone by law. Carriers will often ignore safe zone restrictions when they apply to private buildings. I obey when it applies to things like govt buildings and schools, places where people will get upset, but often ignore the law in other places like churches or hospitals. In Texas, for example, where hospitals and churches are safe zones, there has not been a single charge brought against someone licensed for carrying there.

There is a guy in a former ward who just got out of jail for domestic violence. After we moved to another ward, he began bringing a pistol to church and tucking it into the back of his pants, like guys on a TV show. The bishop asked him to not bring a gun to church, and when he argued about it, he insisted on it (but did end up complying, thankfully).

If a member is asked not to have a gun and refuses to comply with the request, is that grounds to call the police for disorderly conduct, etc.?

I'm glad I've never had to deal with anything like that. Other crazies with guns, yes, but not a showdown battle of wills over a gun at church!

[_Water Dog]

There is a guy in a former ward who just got out of jail for domestic violence. After we moved to another ward, he began bringing a pistol to church and tucking it into the back of his pants, like guys on a TV show. The bishop asked him to not bring a gun to church, and when he argued about it, he insisted on it (but did end up complying, thankfully).

If a member is asked not to have a gun and refuses to comply with the request, is that grounds to call the police for disorderly conduct, etc.?

I'm glad I've never had to deal with anything like that. Other crazies with guns, yes, but not a showdown battle of wills over a gun at church!

That sounds creepy, like a time to call the police.

In Texas you lose your LTC immediately upon domestic violence, DUI, or basically anything above a traffic violation. No idea about your area, but that doesn't sound legal. And the keyword in concealed carry is "concealed." People at church never knew I had a gun. I know two currently serving bishops who always carry.

And yes, of course, if asked to leave, I would never protest such a request. I also wouldn't come back though. Businesses that put up proper signage to ban carrying on their premises, I avoid them.

[_moinmoin]

That sounds creepy, like a time to call the police.

In Texas you lose your LTC immediately upon domestic violence, DUI, or basically anything above a traffic violation. No idea about your area, but that doesn't sound legal. And they keyword in concealed carry is "concealed." People at church never knew I had a gun. I know two currently serving bishops who always carry.

Just to clarify, he didn't have the domestic violence arrest/conviction until after the gun incident. Prior to the incident, he didn't have a criminal record or something that would trigger a background check of any kind.

I'm wondering if, hypothetically, a bishop can require that people who legitimately have a concealed carry permit or who carry openly not have a gun at church? Maybe because it's private property and subject to the person in charge? In that case, if a leader insisted and called the police to intervene, what would the police do?

Purely hypothetical. I'm just curious. Thanks!

[_Lemmie]

When I was growing up, we had a retired FBI agent who concealed carried at church (Washington). Ironically, his name was Brother Gunn.

So, nothing at all was concealed?! Reminds me of that Olympic alpine skier, lickety split or something....

Athlete Profile - Ted LIGETY
Nickname: Ligety Split, Ted the Shred, Mr GS
https://www.pyeongchang2018.com/en/game ... ligety.htm

[_Lemmie]

I'm wondering if, hypothetically, a bishop can require that people who legitimately have a concealed carry permit or who carry openly not have a gun at church? Maybe because it's private property and subject to the person in charge? In that case, if a leader insisted and called the police to intervene, what would the police do?

Purely hypothetical. I'm just curious. Thanks!

When this was discussed after the florida church shooting, If I recall correctly, something in the lds handbook prohibited guns in church. While looking for a citation, I ran across this DesNews article, 2004, with some interesting discussion about how your hypothetical might be handled:

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said in a written statement Friday that it had mailed a letter drafted Jan. 16 to local-level leaders informing them of plans to follow "Utah law and give public notice that firearms are prohibited in the church's houses of worship, including temples, meetinghouses, the Assembly Hall, the Salt Lake Tabernacle and the Conference Center."

Utah's 50,000 concealed weapons permit holders are allowed to carry their guns "without restriction" except in previously designated places like airports, jails and courthouses, which have other kinds of security.

The law also allows churches to adopt a no-guns policy but requires those organizations to make such policies public.

Under the notification options put in law by legislators last year, churches may publish their policies in a newsletter, bulletin, worship program or newspaper of general circulation. Those that opt to do so must also register with the state Bureau of Criminal Identification, which posts the names of registered organizations on its Web site.

Churches may also publicize a no-gun policy through personal communication to the permit holder, the posting of signs on a building or an announcement from the pulpit.

"The (LDS) Church will register its position with the State Bureau of Criminal Investigation and provide notice in the newspaper," the Friday statement reads. Currently, only three churches — St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Salt Lake City, Shepherd of the Mountain Lutheran Church in Park City and the Summum Church of Salt Lake City — have registered with the state.

The decision by LDS leadership to register puts the church in compliance with state law while at the same time setting the faith apart from other denominations in the Salt Lake Valley that oppose the registration requirement. In December, leaders from about two dozen religious organizations, including the Roman Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church, said they believe that under the protections of the U.S. Constitution, Utah has no jurisdiction to dictate how churches must handle such policy.

excerpt from: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=us

I don't know how this holds in your state re: registration of such policy, however. I found it interesting that leadership would announce that worldwide, their churches would be following Utah law. From a PR standpoint, it seems that could have been phrased in a more politic way.

[_Water Dog]

I'm wondering if, hypothetically, a bishop can require that people who legitimately have a concealed carry permit or who carry openly not have a gun at church? Maybe because it's private property and subject to the person in charge? In that case, if a leader insisted and called the police to intervene, what would the police do?

Purely hypothetical. I'm just curious. Thanks!

Church is private property. So you'd have to ask Salt Lake. The owner of a private property can insist someone leave for any reason they like. And if they refuse, sure, the police will do it by force. Even without permission from Salt Lake, I suspect any responding officer would accept your authority to make such a request and remove the person.

[_Mormonicious]

With a CONCEALED weapons permit, if its concealed how would anyone know?

Oh, that's right the Holy Toaster and the Power of Discernment.

Stupid [deleted] Mormons

[_moksha]

In December, leaders from about two dozen religious organizations, including the Roman Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church, said they believe that under the protections of the U.S. Constitution, Utah has no jurisdiction to dictate how churches must handle such policy.

Ha! It is a well know fact that Religious Liberty only applies to the right to discriminate against Gays.

[_Paracelsus]

In December, leaders from about two dozen religious organizations, including the Roman Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church, said they believe that under the protections of the U.S. Constitution, Utah has no jurisdiction to dictate how churches must handle such policy.

Ha! It is a well know fact that Religious Liberty only applies to the right to discriminate against Gays.

Unfortunately, metal detectors at the gates don't detect gays' sex pistols.
As far as I know - really I don't -, it works the same way as of anybody's ones.

US' citizens should carry as many weapons as they want. Or twice of. Nobody checks it. The NRA is for decrease the population at whatever cost.

[_cwald]

Just to be clear in Oregon and Utah a person with a concealed weapons permit can carry a gun into schools and churches unless they are clearly marked that they are not allowed.

WD, in Texas is it law that concealed weapons cannot be brought into any church, even if they don't have signs posted? Is the idea of a "safe-zone a legal thing or is it just a cultural practice?