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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:57 pm 
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aussieguy55 wrote:
When did this adaption theory start and what empirical evidence that this kind of thing occurred.Klaus had words to say about Nibley's Sed Festival argument.


Is the "Adaption Theory" the official name Mopologists are calling this now?

I guess the "Adaption Theory" sounds better than the "Joseph Smith Chiseling Theory" even though it's not more accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:03 pm 
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This gem from John Gee

"So from Shulem’s name and title and we can surmise the following: From the form of his name, we know that Shulem lived during the late Middle Kingdom or the Second Intermediate Period. Shulem was not a native Egyptian. He was probably a first generation immigrant. He served in the court of a Fourteenth Dynasty ruler, who was probably not a native Egyptian either. If we had the entire translation of the Book of Abraham, we might be able to see how Shulem might have fit into the story or know more about him."

https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/shule ... l-waiters/

I reckon Ritner must be laughing that he got off his Ph.D. committee.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:08 pm 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
aussieguy55 wrote:
When did this adaption theory start and what empirical evidence that this kind of thing occurred.Klaus had words to say about Nibley's Sed Festival argument.


Is the "Adaption Theory" the official name Mopologists are calling this now?

I guess the "Adaption Theory" sounds better than the "Joseph Smith Chiseling Theory" even though it's not more accurate.


The "Adoption Theory" is fatally flawed, DOA. It's a desperate last stand made by today's apologists before the Facsimiles finally get pulled from the canon. It's a very long straw that provides no oxygen. It's an apologetic tactic to confuse the issue and brush everything aside while making a Hail Mary pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:29 pm 
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John Gee wrote:
If we had the entire translation of the Book of Abraham, we might be able to see how Shulem might have fit into the story or know more about him.


Enough of the nonsense, John. Just stop. Stop! You're killing yourself. This is unhealthy. Don't you get tired of this ____? Look, friend, we have Joseph Smith's entire translation:

Facsimile No. 3 wrote:
Image

Fig. 5. Shulem, one of the king’s principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand.


So, tell me John, how do you spell "SHULEM"? Can you point to the hieroglyphs above Fig. 5 and show me how they spell SHULEM? Give me the transliteration, please.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:37 pm 
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No wonder Gee is leaving the Maxwell and they are looking for a niche somewhere for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:05 pm 
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aussieguy55 wrote:
Is "Shulem "represented by the characters above his hand? I understand the names can be read and match the Egyptian characters for Isis etc. Why is the Prince holding his hand? Again the Princes' name is supposed to be above his hand?


Robert F. Smith did not answer your questions. Not. At. All:

Robert F. Smith wrote:
As in all Egyptian illustrations of this type, the captions overhead identify the players (as in a modern cartoon). It is all fairly cut and dried. You can find standard translations of all the papyri online at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Papyri . That doesn't tell you everything you need to know, but it is a good start.


Mormons are often incapable of answering with a simple "yes" or a "no" but love to deviate and spin webs of evil in which they refuse to come to terms. You can be sure that Robert knows the name Shulem is not written in the hieroglyphic writing as the early Mormons believed when they felt the Holy Ghost bear testimony to their souls that Joseph Smith was truly translating Egyptian from the papyrus just as he did from the gold plates.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:02 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
aussieguy55 wrote:
Is "Shulem "represented by the characters above his hand? I understand the names can be read and match the Egyptian characters for Isis etc. Why is the Prince holding his hand? Again the Princes' name is supposed to be above his hand?


Robert F. Smith did not answer your questions. Not. At. All:

Robert F. Smith wrote:
As in all Egyptian illustrations of this type, the captions overhead identify the players (as in a modern cartoon). It is all fairly cut and dried. You can find standard translations of all the papyri online at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Papyri . That doesn't tell you everything you need to know, but it is a good start.


Mormons are often incapable of answering with a simple "yes" or a "no" but love to deviate and spin webs of evil in which they refuse to come to terms. You can be sure that Robert knows the name Shulem is not written in the hieroglyphic writing as the early Mormons believed when they felt the Holy Ghost bear testimony to their souls that Joseph Smith was truly translating Egyptian from the papyrus just as he did from the gold plates.


Who is Robert F. Smith anyway. He comes across as some kind of academic, but the only publications of his that I can find are on FAIR. Does anyone know his background?


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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:32 pm 
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sunstoned wrote:
Who is Robert F. Smith anyway. He comes across as some kind of academic, but the only publications of his that I can find are on FAIR. Does anyone know his background?


A fanatic who is totally immersed in symbolic parallelism and fantasy not grounded in logic or reality as he attempts to connect Joseph Smith's revelations with conventional Egyptology. He thinks that expressing various facets of Egyptian art and religion ties Smith's version of Egyptology to truth -- he uses and expresses symbolism and representationalism in order to justify the Book of Abraham translation but the whole process is wild and the outcome is a total sham.

It's not worth your time to dive into his convoluted spiderweb and sink into an abyss of nonsense unless you want to get yourself sick. Go ahead, explore, but you'll be sorry you did.

Beware:

A Brief Assessment Of The LDS Book Of Abraham: by ©Robert F. Smith March 21, 2019

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:14 pm 
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HOLD THE PRESS!

Image

Quote:
8. Facsimile Printing Plates and the Published Book of Abraham (1842 ed.)
The drawing plates that appear in our present Book of Abraham were produced by one of Joseph Smith’s associates, Reuben Hedlock. Hedlock carefully carved “woodcuts” that is, a flat block of wood with the image of an Egyptian vignette carved in its surface and then used as a mold for a lead copy.

This is the closest I’ll ever get to the original of facsimile no. 2.


?

Is he saying that there was a flat block of wood with the original vignette carved into it and it was cast over with lead to make the printing block?

I'm confused. What the hell? Will someone please explain this ____ thing to me. Jesus.

:mad:

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:48 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
I'm confused. What the hell? Will someone please explain this ____ thing to me. Jesus.

:mad:



Is this a misdirection tactic to move credit for the chiseling out of Joseph’s hand?


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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:33 pm 
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Dr Moore wrote:
Shulem wrote:
I'm confused. What the hell? Will someone please explain this ____ thing to me. Jesus.

:mad:



Is this a misdirection tactic to move credit for the chiseling out of Joseph’s hand?


I don't know. I figured the only wood block involved was a wood block in which a lead plate having the original carving -- was fastened thereto by screws. I figured the carving was in lead not wood. But from the above it seems to suggest that the carving was in wood and that lead was the medium poured into it to make a printers block. But really, I don't know the facts because the facts remain hidden, compliments of the church and it's long history of hiding the facts.

I would think Brian Hauglid knows the basic mechanics of how the printers block was formed and fitted. I also think that Brian Hauglid has a opinion about the snout that was removed from the lead plate. I wonder how he's processing that new information. It threw a wrench into his mix.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:16 am 
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The Wikipedia article on woodcut seems to say that the image was carved in wood and the carved wood block itself was then rolled with ink and used to print. Lead moulds aren't mentioned at all in the article. And I don't see why they would be.

Lead is used for type because to print a book you need a whole lot of A's and E's and S's, each of them all the same. So you don't want to hand-carve hundreds of each letter. You make one mould for each letter and pour hundreds of copies in lead. The only reason I know for using lead is that it's a metal with a low melting point, so you can mass produce durable type pieces by pouring. I don't believe lead has any special affinity for ink or paper or anything like that.

You don't normally print more than one copy of the same picture in a single book, so one printing form of the picture is all you need. There's no point in making a mould and pouring lead into it just so that your single printing block can be made of lead instead of wood. Wood works fine.

The only reason I can think of to make lead copies of this particular woodcut is just to create multiple replicas of the woodcut itself as a historical artifact, to show in museums or for scholars to study. Today one might instead scan the woodcut to record its precise 3D shape and then make plastic replicas by 3D printing.


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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:30 am 
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Physics Guy wrote:
The Wikipedia article on woodcut seems to say that the image was carved in wood and the carved wood block itself was then rolled with ink and used to print. Lead moulds aren't mentioned at all in the article. And I don't see why they would be.

Lead is used for type because to print a book you need a whole lot of A's and E's and S's, each of them all the same. So you don't want to hand-carve hundreds of each letter. You make one mould for each letter and pour hundreds of copies in lead. The only reason I know for using lead is that it's a metal with a low melting point, so you can mass produce durable type pieces by pouring. I don't believe lead has any special affinity for ink or paper or anything like that.

You don't normally print more than one copy of the same picture in a single book, so one printing form of the picture is all you need. There's no point in making a mould and pouring lead into it just so that your single printing block can be made of lead instead of wood. Wood works fine.

The only reason I can think of to make lead copies of this particular woodcut is just to create multiple replicas of the woodcut itself as a historical artifact, to show in museums or for scholars to study. Today one might instead scan the woodcut to record its precise 3D shape and then make plastic replicas by 3D printing.


thanks for that


Facsimile Printing Plates

Have you looked at the plates of all three Facsimiles closely? Click the link above and you can scroll to all three Facsimile plates. Clearly they are made of lead.

I'm wondering if there are actual wood carved plates somewhere in the church vault? Is there more to this story? The reason I ask is because I would want to examine the Facsimile No. 3 wood cut and see if Anubis has a nose.

I confess that the printing process is over my head and has been a learning experience trying to figure this out.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:31 am 
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Where the hell is philo when you need him?

:mad:

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:31 am 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:40 am 
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So, my neighbor found this metal detecting in his yard (he's a character):

Image
Image
Image
Image

Hey, Shulem. We need your expertise! What does this look like to you? I should note our neighborhood is an old one and we live minutes from temple square, so it wouldn't be too wild to find an early Mormon artifact at what was an old homestead.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:56 am 
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I'm not Shulem but I am an expert in this sort of thing. You won't believe this, but it is another ancient depiction of King Pharoah, cast by Abraham himself! There are many more marvelous secrets depicted on this plate. Tell your neighbor that I will reveal more to him soon. Also, are his wife and/or daughters pretty? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:18 am 
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It looks like the dude is up to no good.

Notice on top of the round wooden table there are a couple of bottles of wine, one of which is tilting on the other. A half filled wine glass to the right sits on the table. Perhaps there is a stack of Playboy magazines all in disarray?

Thanks for keeping this thread alive. The Mormons are going to pay for what they've done to Anubis and for continuously slandering the ancient Egyptian religion. Once it's shown and understood that Anubis's snout really was hacked off to suit Joseph Smith's own purposes there will be a shift in Book of Abraham apologetics and new pressure to get rid of the Facsimiles.

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:24 am 
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Aw, man. I was hoping it was an ancient Egyptian story of Sarah throwing water on Abraham for breaking the Word of Wisdom. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:18 am 
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John Gee,

I just want to say that you are coward.

What more can I say, really? You're a coward. You have no shame. You are a traitor to the memory of the ancient Egyptians and have mocked them to no end. Your shame will not go unforgotten. You'll go down in history as a traitor to your profession, the worst Egyptologist of all time. You'll be remembered as the Mormon Egyptologist who knew that Anubis was rightfully depicted on Facsimile No. 3 and did nothing to defend him.

You are a disgrace. You can't be trusted. You can't be believed. You are an obvious liar and deceiver. Everyone knows it. Most importantly you know it and yet you live with it. How can you do that? How can you stand it? It must be misery. I'm truly sorry for you.

Shulem

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 Post subject: Re: Facsimile No. 3 printing plate reveals jackal head Anubi
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:37 am 
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John Gee, get your nose out of my business!

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