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 Post subject: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:29 pm 
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A newish theory of the origins of Mormonism. The presenter speculates on the contributions that other family members made to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3MluItWQE&t=17s

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Thanks for posting this, Mak!


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:40 pm 
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WINNER

Lines up with much of my research, but develops it much further. The Dartmouth connection is undeniable.

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In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:27 pm 
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What say ye?

Could Lucy, Joseph Senior and Hyrum have had major roles in the production of the Book of Mormon?

Did they?

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:09 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
What say ye?

Could Lucy, Joseph Senior and Hyrum have had major roles in the production of the Book of Mormon?

Did they?

This is a fascinating narrative based on a great deal of research. Moreover, it is certainly more plausible, and accounts for much more of the available evidence, than do the ever changing foundational claims and doctrinal teachings of the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:34 am 
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Unfortunately, there is not a lot we can tell from this YouTube video. There are certainly suggestive elements here, but we have to examine the primary sources ourselves. Do John Smith’s doctrines really mirror Mormon teachings so well if we read them ourselves? The author is hitting us with so much information, and presenting it in a predigested way, that I am concerned about the distortion of the evidence to turn a somewhat plausible series of speculations into a conspiracy theory. Samson Occom as Samuel the Lamanite is very intriguing. John Smith is also someone to look into further. Dartmouth is, no doubt, an intellectual hub for the kinds of ideas the Book of Mormon explores. This does not necessarily mean, however, that Hiram was one of the authors of the Book of Mormon.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:15 am 
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Apparently, they spent a lot of time at Dartmouth researching the angles. Money prevented me from doing so. And access to Lucy's book in its unedited form was another problem for me--even the edited version was destructive to the Book of Mormon. It is obvious to me that Joseph was the front-man for the family "business".

Remember it is an advertising promo for the book.

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In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:05 am 
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Always Changing wrote:
Apparently, they spent a lot of time at Dartmouth researching the angles. Money prevented me from doing so. And access to Lucy's book in its unedited form was another problem for me--even the edited version was destructive to the Book of Mormon. It is obvious to me that Joseph was the front-man for the family "business".

Remember it is an advertising promo for the book.


I know. Hopefully they will include appendices of the John Smith writings and other materials. I will likely buy it if they do. I found the Cowdery, Davis & Vanick book worth having just for its appendices. At the end of the day it’s not just about the sources but one’s interpretation of them.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:09 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I know. Hopefully they will include appendices of the John Smith writings and other materials. I will likely buy it if they do. I found the Cowdery, Davis & Vanick book worth having just for its appendices. At the end of the day it’s not just about the sources but one’s interpretation of them.
If not, they may be challenged to publish a volume of relevant readings. Another option would be to submit scans to Project Gutenberg. I am proofing for DP, an effort to digitize submitted scans, under my real name. Actually spending a lot of time there.

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In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Always Changing wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:
If not, they may be challenged to publish a volume of relevant readings. Another option would be to submit scans to Project Gutenberg. I am proofing for DP, an effort to digitize submitted scans, under my real name. Actually spending a lot of time there.


At the very least we should be given chunky quotes in the footnotes/endnotes. Good luck with your work!


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:24 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Good luck with your work!
It is enjoyable, relaxing, and sometimes good for a laugh. No more writing despite great anxiety towards the subject. I may write again, once the Lucy code gains ground. Cut and re-expand. :lol:

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In Helaman 6:39, we see the Badmintons, so similar to Skousenite Mormons, taking over the government and abusing the rights of many.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Always Changing wrote:
It is enjoyable, relaxing, and sometimes good for a laugh. No more writing despite great anxiety towards the subject. I may write again, once the Lucy code gains ground. Cut and re-expand. :lol:


Please do send me any links or references to other things you have done so I can enjoy reading those things too!


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 10:08 am 
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Any word on published sources for the Lucy Code?

I think the video is intriguing enough on its own though, just by virtue of setting down historical context that reminds me that people then were every bit as smart as we are, that nothing occurs in a vacuum, and that there was so much going on, already millennia of stories and histories informing the contemporary narratives.

Elementary, yes, but I appreciated it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:51 pm 
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I was on a conference call last year with the author, Jeremy Runnells and a few others and he ran it all by us. I think his theory has a lot going for it, but I too, want to see the book and the evidence.

I know it's coming. I will let you all know where to get it when it becomes available.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Another thought and I wrestled with this after hearing about this last year is that the story we know is so ingrained in us, that it can be difficult to accept new ideas and connections. For that reason, I try to remain open, but seeing the evidence is key. I know this first hand, having my own idea of how Joseph's Spiritual Wife System (along with "sealing" etc.) developed. The first part of it, on Baptism for the Dead, I've published on. I'm working on the rest. I am very, very intrigued by the Dartmouth College connection, (among other things). Looking forward to seeing all the evidence.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 1:22 am 
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grindael wrote:
I was on a conference call last year with the author, Jeremy Runnells and a few others and he ran it all by us. I think his theory has a lot going for it, but I too, want to see the book and the evidence.

I know it's coming. I will let you all know where to get it when it becomes...

grindael wrote:
Another thought and I wrestled with this after hearing about this last year is that the story we know is so ingrained in us, that it can be difficult to accept new ideas and connections. For that reason, I try to remain open, but seeing the evidence is key. I know this first hand, having my own idea of how Joseph's Spiritual Wife System (along with "sealing" etc.) developed. The first part of it, on Baptism for the Dead, I've published on. I'm working on the rest. I am very, very intrigued by the Dartmouth College connection, (among other things). Looking forward to seeing all the evidence.

Thank you. It's interesting, I was recently in Edinburgh and I toured underground where gravediggers would hide bodies. It was a very lucrative practice.

Also, I had no idea about the Scottish history and Egypt. So much to learn....


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:51 am 
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When I watched the video last year I wondered if any unbiased historians would be confirming this presentation. I imagine the Mormon Interpreter may have commissioned a hit piece on that Lucy Code idea.

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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Always Changing wrote:
Apparently, they spent a lot of time at Dartmouth researching the angles. Money prevented me from doing so. And access to Lucy's book in its unedited form was another problem for me--even the edited version was destructive to the Book of Mormon. It is obvious to me that Joseph was the front-man for the family "business".

Remember it is an advertising promo for the book.

This would seem to be what you mention lacking.

https://www.amazon.com/History-Joseph-S ... mack+smith

I have not read it so do not know if it clarifies. It being code sounds farfetched but i have read neither this source or the book detailing the proposal.

I was struck by the proposal with a bit of surprise. I am unsure if that is because Joseph alone passes Occams razor or I am discomforted seeing a broader participation in conscious conspiracy. The YouTube presentation has possible explanation of that , fictional representation of truth.(masonic precedent)


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:56 pm 
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I am taken aback. His older brother! Relatively ignored by Brodie to focus on Joseph's abilities and emotions. She deals with the problem of Joseph treating as something he believes which he would known to have contained fiction by seeing it as psychological transition. that would be easier to see for one person. For two or three people something else is needed. Masonic myth making as precedence. (!?)

I am not going to jump to a conclusion.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:03 am 
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Like I said, there are aspects of this theory that sorely need some evidentiary support. I too, am skeptical about the Masonic connection. I'm intrigued though by the Dartmouth connections and the grave robbing. I'm not sure though, that the Smith's were well off at any time during that period. As for how Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon, he did have a fantastic memory, and this is evidenced by something he told Clayton in 1843, that he could dictate the polygamy "revelation" from memory at any time he chose to. That is quite a claim to make. For those who are rightly skeptical of supernatural claims, like talking donkeys, etc., glowing letters appearing on a stone buried in a hat doesn't fly. Did Joseph write the text, or did he have help? If he did, who was it? Can one really see Joseph Smith Sr. as a writer of a large part of the Book of Mormon, the man who had a serious drinking problem and was blabbing things left and right to his neighbors? Hyrum though, that is intriguing.

Morgan disappeared in Sept. 1826. Joseph didn't even claim to get the plates until the next year and didn't begin to "translate" until well after that. Why write out 116 pages and then feel the need to destroy them over the Morgan Affair/anti Masonry sentiment in June, 1828, when the anti Masonry movement didn't really gain traction until after the elections in the fall of 1828? (The party wasn't formed until Feb. 1828). Did the Smith's know they would gain such widespread support only a few months later, well before the 1828 elections? How much Masonic material was in the 116 pages? How can anyone know that?

I think that there isn't really a need to account for everything and trying to do so puts such a burden of proof on one that it can destroy the whole idea. Did Lucy leave things out because it was a few decades later, or was she a master manipulator that wanted to leave a puzzle for only a few to find in her manuscript? It reminds me of how some view the writings of Nostradamus, that almost anything he wrote can be interpreted a certain way based on later events.

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Lost in the riddle of a quatrain;
Stuck in an elevator between floors.
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may alter your perception.


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 Post subject: Re: The Lucy Code
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:05 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
A newish theory of the origins of Mormonism. The presenter speculates on the contributions that other family members made to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf3MluItWQE&t=17s


For example?


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