And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

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_Nightlion
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Nightlion »

Gadianton wrote:
Nightlion wrote:He says that IF there were anything other than atom (physical atoms I presume) they WOULD HAVE FOUND THE EVIDENCE OF IT.


Another religionist posted something similar in the comments, saying further that he contradicted himself because he also said science was still learning new things.

What he said is that if there is anything else withing Quantum Field Theory, they would have found the evidence for it. In other words, there are no undiscovered particles etc. The Mormon view in particular of spirit as matter is toast.

So close down everything. Lock the Patent Offices. The deniers have it all.

Actually the REAL ME is not spirit matter. Spirit is what got added to the appointed sphere of my independent intelligence. Joseph said all spirit is matter. He did not venture to say what intelligence consists of other than light. Intelligence can be assigned to a specific sphere of independent existence. I suspect that intelligence does not manifest independently unless it is given a sphere of independent consciousness. It comes out from the Light of Truth. It is in all things that live.

If I were to perdition myself and have to return to the Light of Truth to come back around in another generation of the Heavens and the earth I would not be assigned to be a fish or a toad. It would be reasonable to assume God would allow us the highest rank we are capable of. This Act of Creation in the beginning of each generation is where God the Eternal Father IS our Father. (Can't hardly help but expound to the deniests.) And as much the Father of all things and OUR Father.

I know deniers care nothing about truth's particulars. Pity
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Philo Sofee »

NL
I know deniers care nothing about truth's particulars. Pity

I know deniers enjoy the performance of the believers slobbering all over just anything they can invent to imagine thy possess the truth. Delightful.
Dr CamNC4Me
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_Nightlion
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Nightlion »

Philo Sofee wrote:
NL
I know deniers care nothing about truth's particulars. Pity

I know deniers enjoy the performance of the believers slobbering all over just anything they can invent to imagine thy possess the truth. Delightful.


There is no difference between an new atheist and an old religious hypocrite. Both deny and trample upon the truth. Same brain same fate.
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
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_Philo Sofee
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Philo Sofee »

NL
There is no difference between an new atheist and an old religious hypocrite. Both deny and trample upon the truth. Same brain same fate.


I don't think so. The new atheist is just like the old ones, only religion cannot burn them on the fire now. :wink:
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_Choyo Chagas
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Choyo Chagas »

NL
There is no difference between an new atheist and an old religious hypocrite. Both deny and trample upon the truth. Same brain same fate.
ok, we got it. everybody is stupid but you are a helicopter.



NL
There is no difference between an new atheist and an old religious hypocrite. Both deny and trample upon the truth. Same brain same fate.
Philo Sofee wrote:I don't think so. The new atheist is just like the old ones, only religion cannot burn them on the fire now. :wink:
cannot do but is keen to do :mrgreen:
Choyo Chagas is Chairman of the Big Four, the ruler of the planet from "The Bull's Hour" ( Russian: Час Быка), a social science fiction novel written by Soviet author and paleontologist Ivan Yefremov in 1968.
Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.
_Stem
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Stem »

Gadianton wrote:Stem,

"That is the atoms that make us up have a duplicate spiritual duplicate. "

There are several possible problems with this, depending on exactly what you mean. First, the typical rejection of "materialism" is that matter can't account for something as profound as mind. What you seem to be saying is that matter can account for mind, and spirit stuff holds the same functional relations. In other words, spirit doesn't help explain anything, not even in a god-of-gaps way.


I doubt I really get what you are saying here, but I will offer a response, because what else are we doing here? If there is matter that is not able to be detected, then what are we to make of this not explaining anything? You may get me to go back and relisten to the posted video, I suppose, but it doesn't seem to me that we can possibly know if the atoms we can detect are not duplicated in the atoms we can't detect.

Fine, this is about your position, not the typical theist position. The biggest problem with your position is now we have two of you. One is spirit, one is matter, but both would have their own first person experience of the world. The spirit you, in other words, isn't really you. What would be the difference between there being a spirit double, and say, scientists scan your brain enough times to discover all the functional relations, and then program a computer with those relations? What if that same program is copied twenty-seven times? There could just as well be twenty-seven spiritual duplicates. Would all those be "you"?


Beats me about what if that same program is copied 27 times. It also beast me whether scientists scanning my brain enough times can discover all the functional relations. But if so that'd be cool. I'd volunteer to be their experiment, if they paid me well enough for my time (gotsta still support my family).
_Stem
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Re: And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

Post by _Stem »

honorentheos wrote:Hi Stem,

It didn't seem like your question was answered earlier so I'll make an attempt.

Sean Carroll makes the argument that the current state of quantum field theory allows us to predict the behavior of atoms with such a high degree of reliability that there is nothing that could be outside of the known science playing a meaningful role. There are no gaps in our understanding that allow for mystery forces such as spirit. So he's not saying "as far as we know" and leaving room for things we can't detect because the equations include what we do know and they work incredibly well at predicting outcomes such that there is no difference between saying there may be a parallel spirit phenomena taking place and there isn't one. Subtract hypothetical spiritual phenomena and the equations still work and the results are the same.


I thought I lost interest in this a couple weeks ago, or whenever it was first posted. But seeing as I'm taking time this morning to respond to you I might get cajoled back into re-listening to what he said, see as I might have misunderstood or need to get all freshed up again in order to discuss it. When you say,

Sean Carroll makes the argument that the current state of quantum field theory allows us to predict the behavior of atoms with such a high degree of reliability that there is nothing that could be outside of the known science playing a meaningful role.


Yeah. I think I heard that.

There are no gaps in our understanding that allow for mystery forces such as spirit. So he's not saying "as far as we know" and leaving room for things we can't detect because the equations include what we do know and they work incredibly well at predicting outcomes such that there is no difference between saying there may be a parallel spirit phenomena taking place and there isn't one. Subtract hypothetical spiritual phenomena and the equations still work and the results are the same.


I might be misremembering but I thought he was the one who said "as far as we know" a few times. I'm not sure whether it matters if "there are no gaps in our understanding that allow for mystery forces such as spirit". My possibility that I used to question whether his conclusion works already assumes that, because what the hell do I know? My example was used to show that though we know and can predict, as you describe, we simply can't know whether there is duplicate work being done by spirit atoms undetected; thus, gaining us the memory he suggests ends at death when it all stop working.

I'm still not feeling intrigued enough to revisit his video though. It remains to be, at least to me, an argument addressed by too many other possibilities.
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