And I Thought Riskas Was Powerful Against Mormonism!!!

[_DoubtingThomas]

Sure, as speculation if you want.

What else can you do with that which is wrapped up with and/or contains unknowns?

Regards,
MG

Exactly! So why believe in God? Why not be agnostic?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Exactly! So why believe in God? Why not be agnostic?

Because dark matter! And if that doesn't work because neutrinos! Or antimatter. Or dark energy. Or quarks! Or, uh, bosons! Sting theory!

Spirit matter can be anything science-y. Heaven can be anywhere. God could be anything. Mormonism! It's true if you just... play with it a bit! GenCon fanfic at its best, folks.

- Doc

[_mentalgymnast]

Exactly! So why believe in God? Why not be agnostic?

Get thee behind me...



Regards,
MG

P.S. I hope that wasn't considered trollish. If it is, I'll go back and delete the evil guy face. Or delete the whole post...treading EVER so lightly.

[_mentalgymnast]

MG
Hey Philo, it's kind of hard to carry on a conversation with someone that comes back and essentially says, "No you're not." And, "You're really not who you say you are."

It's hard to play with that.

I sincerely can't take much of anything you say seriously anymore, sorry.

That's OK. I'll keep reading your stuff though. I find it thought provoking at times and take it seriously up to a point.

Best wishes,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Sting theory!
- Doc

Yeah, that's it. Ouch!

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

You might consider attempting to reconcile consciousness and self-awareness being independent of our biological form (intelligence, light, whatever you want to call it) and the fact it can completely disappear and come back through manipulation of a material brain. Where does consciousness go if it's independent of the brain? Or if intertwined what does it mean it can effectively cease to exist, light switched off given the right conditions?

I've thought about this. The way that I've looked at it is along this line. The brain is the hard drive or the spinning disk. The memories/knowledge/personality are the software running on the hard drive. If the material brain is manipulated/damaged in any way the operation/manifestation of the software program is in limbo and/or the program crashes. If the hard disk/brain is repaired and/or comes back online the underlying software is able to run the program...memories/knowledge/personality again.

This doesn't make sense as an analogy that supports your position. If software is encoded on hardware, the hardware is still where the software exists. Software isn't independent of some form of material place for it to actually "Be". Your intuitive way of approaching this is as a materialist. And as the OP keeps clearly articulating, if it's atoms and parts of brains then the knowledgeable person can make scientific predictions using quantum field theory that leave no gaps for missing pieces to be the material "other" you may think of as spirit. It's either in what we know or it is meaningless to the actual operation of atoms doing what atoms do.

To think that there is 'finer matter' attuned and/or attached at the subatomic level...quantum level(?)...to the goings on and operations of the software running in the brain is not unreasonable. When we die the software meshed with Spirit releases the Spirit to eternity. The brain/hard drive dies as the atoms morph into primordial elements.

Again, Carroll was clear about this. Quantum mechanics is part of the Quantum Field Theory. Here's a time-stamped link that gets you to that part:
https://youtu.be/uQNnvfMJd_Y?t=395

Hey, if neuroscientists haven't been able to pin down what consciousness/mind is, I can play with it a bit and throw some 'Spirit' in there too, can't I?

Seriously, watch this:

https://youtu.be/lyu7v7nWzfo?t=149

[_mentalgymnast]

If software is encoded on hardware, the hardware is still where the software exists. Software isn't independent of some form of material place for it to actually "Be".

As I said, this is where the analogy sort of breaks down.

https://youtu.be/uQNnvfMJd_Y?t=395

https://youtu.be/lyu7v7nWzfo?t=149

I really enjoyed the second TED video. Interesting.

Where am I under anesthesia? For all intents and purposes, gone. But "I"come back. Where have "I" been in the meantime?

How about this comparison/analogy...sleep function on a computer?

I'm not convinced, however, that there might not be an 'enlightening force' that runs inside and essentially runs the hard drive...IOWs, the software. And that the coding that runs that software might have 'substance'/finer matter that can on death separate from the dying brain.

But I know that's where faith comes in...

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

If software is encoded on hardware, the hardware is still where the software exists. Software isn't independent of some form of material place for it to actually "Be".

As I said, this is where the analogy sort of breaks down.

https://youtu.be/uQNnvfMJd_Y?t=395

https://youtu.be/lyu7v7nWzfo?t=149

I really enjoyed the second TED video. Interesting.

Where am I under anesthesia? For all intents and purposes, gone. But "I"come back. Where have "I" been in the meantime?

How about this comparison/analogy...sleep function on a computer?

So when you die, what is reasonable to assume will be different from this state from the perspective of your own consciousness or lack thereof? Your brain occupies a certain state and it's lights out for consciousness. No spirit back up operating in the background, no light and truth glowing on it's own power waiting for time to pass. If a brain can exert this kind of influence over them that it shuts them down under the right conditions, what's to prevent this from becoming a permanent condition?

[_Philo Sofee]

Exactly! So why believe in God? Why not be agnostic?

Because dark matter! And if that doesn't work because neutrinos! Or antimatter. Or dark energy. Or quarks! Or, uh, bosons! Sting theory!

Spirit matter can be anything science-y. Heaven can be anywhere. God could be anything. Mormonism! It's true if you just... play with it a bit! GenCon fanfic at its best, folks.

- Doc

Excellent.....

[_Philo Sofee]

MG
I'm not convinced, however, that there might not be an 'enlightening force' that runs inside and essentially runs the hard drive...IOWs, the software. And that the coding that runs that software might have 'substance'/finer matter that can on death separate from the dying brain.

But I know that's where faith comes in...

That's cheating. If there is no evidence it is much more honest to say I don't know. Not oh well lets have faith our doctrine is still correct even when the evidence is completely against it. Faith cheats and does not add to knowledge. It's why I no longer go that cheating shortcut route. I am more comfortable now admitting the truth, I don't know when something comes up. Try it it's amazingly liberating.