Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on lds.org

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Jonah
_Emeritus
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _Jonah »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Jonah wrote:I remember glancing over at Asay who was nodding his head when the words, “You sons of bitches” escaped my lips. I followed that up with, “I’m done. I’m outta here.

mentalgymnast wrote:That sort of experience can have life changing effects in some cases. Do you feel like the outcome...as time went on...was positive in your case?

It is hard to say what the outcome was in my case without seeing what the outcome would have been had I stayed. I have heard a lot of RM’s who regretted going on their missions and a lot who didn’t. I have no regrets (other than not learning a language) in walking off of mine. After that, life happened and it is what it is.

Because of the treatment I faced coming home by my parents/family, I have a huge soft spot in my heart for early returned missionaries. When I hear stories of missionaries wanting to come home but are fearful in doing so, I relive my nightmare all over again. I wish I could hug them, and hold them, and tell them that they are good. I would tell them that when they felt there was nobody in the world in their corner…I would be there. My experience was 40 years ago, yet as I am sitting here typing this…tears are streaming down my face.

mentalgymnast wrote:Would you have done it any other way as you think back on it?

Life changing effects…hmmmm…yeah I would say so. I was born into the church and through my high school years it could be said that I was an exemplary example of what a Mormon youth should be. Other than not going on my mission in the first place, or once there, NOT going in to confess to the MTC Prez…I don’t think I would have done things differently.

My MTC experience did open my eyes to a few things though. I realized that my church leaders could not be trusted, realized that even the elite were “just men” with NO special powers…ESPECIALLY when it came to discernment. I also realized that they would not allow empathy or even common decency to get in the way of their agenda.

Even so, I stuck with the church for another 20 years afterwards because I felt the “church” was perfect, therefore the problem was with me. I did everything I was supposed to and lived the typical TBM life. It felt like I was on a one-way street as I wasn’t feeling the “joy”, or the “spirit” , or the “fulfillment of the gospel” that I was told I would. I gave it my best, and it didn’t work for me. Now that I have been out for nearly 20 years, I can honestly look back and say that my very worst days I experience being outside of the church are better than the very best days I experienced while in.
Red flags look normal when you're wearing rose colored glasses.
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _Gadianton »

I suppose the CHI is a big deal because the Church makes such a big deal about keeping it secret, but is there anything else to it?

There should be a contest where participants are given a CHI topic and told to make up what they think the CHI would say about it. The person who comes the closest, wins. I'll bet there would be some tight competition given how predictable the Church is.

The best I can describe the density of the Church's verbal output in the 21st century, looking at it as a product that is consumed, is to imagine a huge bag with a thousand liter volume capacity. Drop three Cheetos inside and factory seal it, making sure it's taut with air.

In twenty years, the Church may be the worlds first brand that is entirely self-referential.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Jonah wrote:Because of the treatment I faced coming home by my parents/family, I have a huge soft spot in my heart for early returned missionaries. When I hear stories of missionaries wanting to come home but are fearful in doing so, I relive my nightmare all over again. I wish I could hug them, and hold them, and tell them that they are good. I would tell them that when they felt there was nobody in the world in their corner…I would be there. My experience was 40 years ago, yet as I am sitting here typing this…tears are streaming down my face.


Hey Jonah, thanks so much for sharing.

We have had a few missionaries come home early in our family. They have come home and gone on with their lives. To the best of my knowledge they were treated with love and understanding by family members. But we tend to have a family that's pretty open to individual choices. And we've had family members make choices all over the board. :smile:

Best wishes to you.

It sounds like we might be similar in age. I served my mission back in 73-75.

Regards,
MG
_Jonah
_Emeritus
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _Jonah »

mentalgymnast wrote:We have had a few missionaries come home early in our family. They have come home and gone on with their lives. To the best of my knowledge they were treated with love and understanding by family members. But we tend to have a family that's pretty open to individual choices.

Heh...that sounds like a fantasy that I can't relate to.

When I got off of the airplane at LAX my father was at the gate waiting for me. When I approached there was no smile, no hug, just his EXTENDED HAND to give me a handshake, followed up with "You look good...I can't say I am glad to see you." He screamed at me the entire ride home from the airport. We got home around midnight. The house was dark, my mother was nowhere to be seen. She couldn't face me for three days. I went to my room, pulled the covers of my bed over my head, and trembled myself to sleep. I was awoken the next morning by a knock at my door. When I opened it my older sister was standing there in tears saying, "How could you do this to our family?" I slowly closed the door on her. I had just entered a new type of hell.

It took me a while, but I was able to land a job, secure some transportation (motorcycle), and started to save every penny. Around five months later my father saw that I was just getting my feet underneath me again. That wasn't in the cards for him. So in his best effort to keep me down he approached me one night and said, "You know what Jonah...I think it would be best for the family if you were to leave."

It was rough back then ( a LONG time ago) but I had good friends around me. If there is a silver lining it is that the example of my parents taught me MANY things of what NOT TO DO when it came to my kids (and others).

Yeah, we are close to the same age. I left for the MTC in early December 1976 and came home mid-January 1977.
Red flags look normal when you're wearing rose colored glasses.
_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
Posts: 8574
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Jonah wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:We have had a few missionaries come home early in our family. They have come home and gone on with their lives. To the best of my knowledge they were treated with love and understanding by family members. But we tend to have a family that's pretty open to individual choices.

Heh...that sounds like a fantasy that I can't relate to.

When I got off of the airplane at LAX my father was at the gate waiting for me. When I approached there was no smile, no hug, just his EXTENDED HAND to give me a handshake, followed up with "You look good...I can't say I am glad to see you." He screamed at me the entire ride home from the airport. We got home around midnight. The house was dark, my mother was nowhere to be seen. She couldn't face me for three days. I went to my room, pulled the covers of my bed over my head, and trembled myself to sleep. I was awoken the next morning by a knock at my door. When I opened it my older sister was standing there in tears saying, "How could you do this to our family?" I slowly closed the door on her. I had just entered a new type of hell.

It took me a while, but I was able to land a job, secure some transportation (motorcycle), and started to save every penny. Around five months later my father saw that I was just getting my feet underneath me again. That wasn't in the cards for him. So in his best effort to keep me down he approached me one night and said, "You know what Jonah...I think it would be best for the family if you were to leave."

It was rough back then ( a LONG time ago) but I had good friends around me. If there is a silver lining it is that the example of my parents taught me MANY things of what NOT TO DO when it came to my kids (and others).

Yeah, we are close to the same age. I left for the MTC in early December 1976 and came home mid-January 1977.


Oh my. What a travesty. That's a major speed bump.

Regards,
MG
_Jesse Pinkman
_Emeritus
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:58 am

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Jonah wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:We have had a few missionaries come home early in our family. They have come home and gone on with their lives. To the best of my knowledge they were treated with love and understanding by family members. But we tend to have a family that's pretty open to individual choices.

Heh...that sounds like a fantasy that I can't relate to.

When I got off of the airplane at LAX my father was at the gate waiting for me. When I approached there was no smile, no hug, just his EXTENDED HAND to give me a handshake, followed up with "You look good...I can't say I am glad to see you." He screamed at me the entire ride home from the airport. We got home around midnight. The house was dark, my mother was nowhere to be seen. She couldn't face me for three days. I went to my room, pulled the covers of my bed over my head, and trembled myself to sleep. I was awoken the next morning by a knock at my door. When I opened it my older sister was standing there in tears saying, "How could you do this to our family?" I slowly closed the door on her. I had just entered a new type of hell.

It took me a while, but I was able to land a job, secure some transportation (motorcycle), and started to save every penny. Around five months later my father saw that I was just getting my feet underneath me again. That wasn't in the cards for him. So in his best effort to keep me down he approached me one night and said, "You know what Jonah...I think it would be best for the family if you were to leave."

It was rough back then ( a LONG time ago) but I had good friends around me. If there is a silver lining it is that the example of my parents taught me MANY things of what NOT TO DO when it came to my kids (and others).

Yeah, we are close to the same age. I left for the MTC in early December 1976 and came home mid-January 1977.


I’m so sorry this happened to you. My heart breaks for that 20 year old you. I want to be your Mom and hug you and tell you everything will be OK.

Your parents were terribly abusive and wrong. I’m sure you know this now, but you did not deserve to be treated that way. What they did to you, in my opinion, was criminal.

Congratulations for overcoming that incident and moving on with a healthy life.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
_________________
_CameronMO
_Emeritus
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:27 am

Re: Church Handbook of Instructions, Handbook 1 is on LDS.or

Post by _CameronMO »

Gadianton wrote:I suppose the CHI is a big deal because the Church makes such a big deal about keeping it secret, but is there anything else to it?

There should be a contest where participants are given a CHI topic and told to make up what they think the CHI would say about it. The person who comes the closest, wins. I'll bet there would be some tight competition given how predictable the Church is.

The best I can describe the density of the Church's verbal output in the 21st century, looking at it as a product that is consumed, is to imagine a huge bag with a thousand liter volume capacity. Drop three Cheetos inside and factory seal it, making sure it's taut with air.

In twenty years, the Church may be the worlds first brand that is entirely self-referential.

I look at CHI this way, and maybe I'm wrong or simplistic or not thinking it through. But this is what Handbook 1 means to me:

The whole stake could die off suddenly. Flood, tornado, whatever. There is nobody left that has any kind of church leadership. But the apostles determine to call new leadership to that stake. These 3 men can grab CHI Handbook 1 and run Jesus's church just the way Jesus would want it done.

And Jesus wants no minor child of people in a homosexual relationship to be baptized. Jesus says a church court must be held to determine whether to kick you out of His church if you 1) don't listen to your church leaders, 2) make the church look bad, or 3) are involved in a homosexual relationship. Things like commit felonies or abuse are not automatic church-court situations.

There are other items to be ridiculed in Handbook 1, but those two stand out to me. Handbook 1 does not read like it should. If it truly is a Handbook to run Jesus's church, then why does it sound like a bunch of grumpy, old, businessmen wrote it?
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
Post Reply