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 Post subject: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:44 pm 
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http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69740-public-financial-benefits-should-imply-public-financial-disclosure-for-non-profit-entities-agree-or-disagree/

Rabble-rouser Erik from the Board of a Thousand Denials thinks that churches should be obligated to provide a yearly financial statement as a matter of ethics. Of course, most participants disagree since that is not the way their Church conducts business. Poster B. Crockett says he is tired of people asserting an "ethical" obligation against the Church. On the other hand, if the LDS Church routinely offered financial disclosures, the Board of a Thousand Denials would regard such disclosures as an act of holy obligation.

So what about annual financial disclosure by churches and the LDS Church in particular since it is the most business-oriented of all religious organizations? Would the LDS Church suffer harm as a result of a published independent financial audit?

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:33 am 
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I really can't see why you are always so negative. Look, Church Authorities know that if such financial information was published then the spirit of discernment would be removed from Mankind and they would dwell in darkness. This withholding of information is for your sake as well as Mankind. So go sit on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:35 am 
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moksha wrote:
I really can't see why you are always so negative. Look, Church Authorities know that if such financial information was published then the spirit of discernment would be removed from Mankind and they would dwell in darkness. This withholding of information is for everyone's sake as well as our continuing relationship with planet Obliblish. So go sit on it.

I need some time to fast and pray on this new information. If there are planetary and interplanetary ramifications then that could be a game changer.

Regardless, the point of the Board of a Thousand Denials being fervent advocates of financial disclosure if the Church actually had such disclosure still stands, so I would be willing to sit next to it rather than on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Financial Reporting

The Church today is in full compliance with the Lord by following the code of silence (Omerta) with respect to its finances. That was not always the case.

The Church entered a period of petite apostacy from 1850 to 1914 when they gave an oral presentation of Church finances at General Conference. In 1915 they went into full apostacy Satan-mode when they released a detailed financial report that included tithing. From 1916 to 1959 they downgraded to only partial apostacy when they reported expenditures without listing tithing revenues.

Because of financial setbacks, Church leaders beseeched the Lord for guidance and he sent forth the blessing of the Apologetic Code of Omerta and Denial which brought them out of the morass of apostastic financial reporting and into compliance with the fullness of Omerta. Don't Talk Under Penalty of Eternal Punishment became the motto of those tasked with maintaining the Lord's temporal financial ledger.

http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/10/25/mormon-land-historian-d-michael-quinn-talks-about-his-exploration-of-lds-church-wealth-what-he-found-may-surprise-you-it-did-him/

Hope that helps. All Holiness unto FARMS.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Last edited by Water Dog on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:27 am 
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moksha wrote:
Financial Reporting

The Church today is in full compliance with the Lord by following the code of silence (Omerta) with respect to its finances. That was not always the case.

The Church entered a period of petite apostacy from 1850 to 1914 when they gave an oral presentation of Church finances at General Conference. In 1915 they went into full apostacy Satan-mode when they released a detailed financial report that included tithing. From 1916 to 1959 they downgraded to only partial apostacy when they reported expenditures without listing tithing revenues.

Because of financial setbacks, Church leaders beseeched the Lord for guidance and he sent forth the blessing of the Apologetic Code of Omerta and Denial which brought them out of the morass of apostastic financial reporting and into compliance with the fullness of Omerta. Don't Talk Under Penalty of Eternal Punishment became the motto of those tasked with maintaining the Lord's temporal financial ledger.

http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/10/25/mormon-land-historian-d-michael-quinn-talks-about-his-exploration-of-lds-church-wealth-what-he-found-may-surprise-you-it-did-him/

Hope that helps. All Holiness unto FARMS.


What happens as transparency requirements grow from country to country? The Church of the LDS folks in England (as opposed to the Church of England) is forced to prepare financial transparency reports. I hear it happens in other countries too. Quinn used those financials to tell us all that the Church folks in Utah are helping to subsidize the Church elsewhere. It ain't a self-sustaining enterprise for most places out there. Maybe paying tithes is less about building up the kingdom and more about maintaining a pulse in certain areas--for appearances sake. Well, maybe business is going better than expected and the world-wideness of the Church's presence is as important to it's revenue as is the taking in of people's 10 percents.


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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:55 am 
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Moksha arguing with himself.... epic.

For every thing else there is mastercard.

But to echo Water Dog, tax churches and require full disclosure. Only the part that actually goes to charity, with a tight definition on what constitutes charity is left tax exempt. Building churches is not charity, building malls is not charity, ad campaign isn't, yada yada.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:08 am 
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I take Gordon Hinckley at his word:

Quote:
“[church financial ] information belongs to those who made the contribution … .”


Except when it doesn't...great example of the church speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:16 am 
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Quote:
I’m LDS and I think non-profit entities including the LDS Church have an ethical obligation to disclose basic financial information

- to the sources of those finances if those sources so choose.


I am a financial source. If I ask are they going to tell?


No.

What a joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:15 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Don't Talk Under Penalty of Eternal Punishment became the motto of those tasked with maintaining the Lord's temporal financial ledger.

Hopefully, the importance of this motto is underscored now that someone has spilled a portion of the beans at Ensign Peak Advisors.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:31 pm 
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It's none of your business how the church spend it's money. Once you donate it, it belongs to the church.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:51 am 
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cwald wrote:
It's none of your business how the church spend it's money. Once you donate it, it belongs to the church.


Suck it up, shut up, and sit down!


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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:56 am 
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These funds are sacred, anything done with them is sacred, and therefore it is too sacred to tell anyone about sacred investments, sacred credit card payments, sacred 2nd home purchases, or any other sacred expenditure His most holy church decides to do. It is that simple.

So, sit on it or sit by it or suck it members and other inquiring minds. The Lord God in heaven deems you unworthy creatures and reminds you of how you just might be thrown into eternal economy class where there will be eternal poor service and tasteless airplane food if you continue to pry into his Holy Hedge Fund.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:21 am 
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Moksha wrote:
On the other hand, if the LDS Church routinely offered financial disclosures, the Board of a Thousand Denials would regard such disclosures as an act of holy obligation.


Great point Moksha. How many times in the last 50 years have LDS condemned other churches for having a paid ministry? So far B. Crockett has only had to put up with a mere fraction of of that, of calls for transparency, and he's already grown tired of hearing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:58 am 
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Funny how when God was poor, He made sure everyone knew it, but now that He is rich God's investments are too sacred to share.

"In God We Trust", but everyone else has to go to tithing settlement.

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 Post subject: Re: Slick Arguments Against Financial Transparency
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:35 pm 
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cwald wrote:
It's none of your business how the church spend it's money. Once you donate it, it belongs to the church.

It's not a church, it's an obscenely wealthy real estate corporation masquerading as a religion.


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