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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Physics Guy wrote:
Is it removed? I just found it, in the form with the final acknowledgement of Infoplease.

I think he is referring to the 2017 one, which DCP reposted in 2019. The content there was never modified, and has now been taken down, although the title remains. See first post of p. 16.

Pretty amazing thread, Lemmie. Just noticed that it is still running on the order of 100 page views per post.

If DCP's main objective in life is public attention (and many here believe it is), it's no wonder that he is posting "Thank You" notes to you, by name, on SeN.

Well done.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:56 pm 
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MsJack wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
Also, according to kiwi, if you notice plagiarism you are an arch-feminist?!!! Is this like Midgley's comment that homosexuality renders one unable to do history?

Xenophon wrote:
I may be way off here but I read that initially as a reference to Ms Jack's expose on Schryver. Kiwi probably thinks lumping the two incidents together puts a stain on yours but personally I'd consider you in good company there.

Res Ipsa wrote:
I was wondering why Kiwi was harshing on Lemmie. Ms. Jack would make more sense as his target.

And your suggestion is simply marvelous!

I can provide a bit more context on this.

About a year after l'affaire du Schryver, there was a thread at MADB wherein Pahoran and William kept calling me things like "man-hater" and "feminazi," you know, the kind of things MRA'ers say of women they don't like. I am, of course, rather conservative as feminists go, so the fact that even my pro-life evangelical feminism is enough to elicit such epithets and slurs from them says a lot about their attitude towards women.

Later, on Liz's private forum, Pahoran decided that repeatedly calling me a "man-hater" was a brilliant strategy. I asked him for examples of my loathsome man-hating and the only thing he could pony up was that most of my high-profile conflicts with LDS apologists have been with men (him, Schryver, Dan Peterson, etc.). Because apparently there are binders full of female LDS apologists out there whom I am giving a free pass to on account of their gender, and I've never been critical of Valerie Hudson or Juliann Reynolds or anything like that. (Ironically, I believe this went down on a thread where I had been ever-so-mildly critical of Cassandra Hedelius.)

I can't provide links or exact quotes since I left Liz's forum, but this is all to say, Pahoran (aka kiwi57) calling women who are critical of LDS apologists "man-haters" and "feminazis" and "arch-feminists" is just par for the course with him. And pretty much a badge of honor for us.

"Because apparently there are binders full of female LDS apologists out there...." . :lol:

Wow, interesting. Thank you for the background, MsJack, that makes a lot more sense now.
MsJack wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
And thank you, I consider it an honor as well to be considered in MsJack's company. I hereby propose the role of Captain Marvel of MD for the venerable MsJack! (Maybe we can coax Cassius U into a showing of the film in her honor at dusk on the Great Lawn...)

You have paid me a great compliment, Lemmie; it is I who consider it an honor to be in your company. I don't often comment on your threads because I take no joy in Dan's ongoing humiliation (it grieves me that he and I could not remain on friendly terms through the years), but I am always amazed by your diligence and attention to detail.

If I am MormonDiscussions.com's Captain Marvel, you must be MormonDiscussions.com's Wonder Woman!

Incidentally, my book club will be seeing Captain Marvel this Saturday. Chicago-area Cassius faculty, students, and alumni are of course welcome to attend.

https://www.meetup.com/Northwest-Suburb ... 259547176/


Thank you very much, MsJack, you are too kind. And unfortunately, I am a little too far East to make your get-together, but I would be there in a heart-beat if the mileage was more reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Hey Lemmie,

You are helping DCP. That's what is so ironic here. You helped him write a better article, but he still doesn't seem to get that he can't do what he did to write it. (Take it from where he did and jumble it all up, even when he finally gives some kind of credit).

But all this should be second nature to him. You cite, you proof, you have others proof, you edit, you go over and over it to make sure anything that is not original is covered. It's not only the right thing to do, it is reasonable and it is RESPECTFUL.

Maybe he'll learn something from your help. I hope so.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Hey Lemmie,

You are helping DCP. That's what is so ironic here. You helped him write a better article, but he still doesn't seem to get that he can't do what he did to write it. (Take it from where he did and jumble it all up, even when he finally gives some kind of credit).

But all this should be second nature to him. You cite, you proof, you have others proof, you edit, you go over and over it to make sure anything that is not original is covered. It's not only the right thing to do, it is reasonable and it is RESPECTFUL.

Maybe he'll learn something from your help. I hope so.

It should definitely be second nature. That's what is so offensive about it. And his comment about being so afraid of inadvertent plagiarism because he reads so much is nonsense. He has to actively work to exchange synonyms, switch the order of adverbs and adjectives, etc. There is no chance he does this inadvertently. He calls it "close paraphrasing" without realizing that true paraphrasing is NOT "close," by definition. And paraphrasing still requires a citation. Peterson's close paraphrasing without giving a source is the DEFINITION of plagiarism.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:26 pm 
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DrW wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
I think he is referring to the 2017 one, which DCP reposted in 2019. The content there was never modified, and has now been taken down, although the title remains. See first post of p. 16.

Pretty amazing thread, Lemmie. Just noticed that it is still running on the order of 100 page views per post.

If DCP's main objective in life is public attention (and many here believe it is), it's no wonder that he is posting "Thank You" notes to you, by name, on SeN.

Well done.

:lol: ouch. That has never been my intention, but, yes, as DCP has continued to post, RE-post, and in a few cases triple-post the same plagiarized entries, I have gradually and reluctantly come to the conclusion that there is a non-negligible element of attention-seeking going on. It is not possible that this continues to happen "accidentally." I have documented half a dozen additional cases of plagiarism that I haven't yet had time to post, and I've noticed that there is at least one more entry he has re-posted, without citations, that I have already documented as plagiarism. How hungry for attention do you have to be, to settle for the attention brought by having your plagiarism habit exposed?


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:41 am 
Savior (resurrected)
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Lemmie wrote:
I think he is referring to the 2017 one, which DCP reposted in 2019. The content there was never modified, and has now been taken down, although the title remains.

Yep. This time you got through. And Peterson seems to have conceded with a measure of class.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:57 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
:lol: ouch. That has never been my intention, but, yes, as DCP has continued to post, RE-post, and in a few cases triple-post the same plagiarized entries, I have gradually and reluctantly come to the conclusion that there is a non-negligible element of attention-seeking going on. It is not possible that this continues to happen "accidentally." I have documented half a dozen additional cases of plagiarism that I haven't yet had time to post, and I've noticed that there is at least one more entry he has re-posted, without citations, that I have already documented as plagiarism. How hungry for attention do you have to be, to settle for the attention brought by having your plagiarism habit exposed?


BINGO! Dr. P must crave the spotlight, even a negative one.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:03 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Russel you make yourself look like a damn fool. Lemmie is no more Nyal than I was someone else years ago. If this place is so much of a sty then why do you keep your account open or was that not you checking private messages here a week or so ago? MormonDiscussions.com is good enough for you to slither and slunk behind the scenes but not good enough for you to Pump your sludge openly? No, you prefer to participate from afar or behind the scenes like the base coward that you are. You guys have been doing this adolescent ____ for decades. Are you so lacking creatively that you can’t come up with a new shtick? This tired old ____ is the best you can come up with? Apparently so.

Tired old ____ from tired old men.

My best to you,
Dog with a bone
;-)

Remember that "Scratch is ChinoBlanco" fiasco from a few years back?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/126xfs/poor_daniel_peterson_if_chino_blanco_doesnt_stop/

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:12 pm 
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malkie wrote:
Remember that "Scratch is ChinoBlanco" fiasco from a few years back?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/126xfs/poor_daniel_peterson_if_chino_blanco_doesnt_stop/

Hi Malkie! Yes, of course I remember.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Seems to be endemic at BYU

https://truthandtransparency.org/news/2 ... ake-action

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Last edited by SteelHead on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:47 am 
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SteelHead wrote:


Quote:
Multiple sources with knowledge of the situation claimed that both the present investigation into Gaskill and the 1998 investigation into Van Orden were delegated to Alex Baugh, the current Chair of the Church History and Doctrine department. They alleged that Baugh has neglected the current investigation and that an investigation is essentially non-existent.

Baugh was contacted in effort corroborate these claims, but did not return the request for comment. However, Carri Jenkins, spokeswoman for BYU, stated “We take these matters very seriously and are conducting a thorough review.”

It is unknown how much time is needed to conduct and conclude such an investigation. Each opinion given to the TTF varied. Ms. Jenkins was asked when the review could be expected to conclude and action taken. This article will be updated should she respond.

At BYU, plagiarism by Professors is tolerated. You are more likely to get ejected from BYU for being raped or growing a beard than if you plagiarise something, it seems.
Quote:
Defense of a Forgery

In addition to this plagiarism, in 2014 Gaskill published The Lost Teachings of Jesus on the Sacred Place of Women, a book heavily based on Nicolas Notovitch’s 1894 book, The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ. Notovitch’s book is known among scholars as a forgery, but Gaskill fails to explicitly recognize this claim.

After public criticism, Gaskill addressed the concern, in which he blamed the oversight on the “reviewers” of his original manuscript who encouraged him to remove his original “[discussion of the] controversy surrounding the text.” Despite criticism, the claims were never retracted and the book remains in publication.

At the time, Gaskill held the position of Associate Professor, but has since been promoted in Full Professor. Nearly all the junior faculty members do not come from backgrounds in CES, whereas nine of the 11 senior professors do.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:42 am 
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Holy smokes! That Gaskill business is unbelievable! What a travesty!

1. His Ph.D. comes from an unaccredited Protestant seminary.

2. He allegedly plagiarized in his 2011 book on gospel symbolism.

3. He allegedly plagiarized in his 2013 book on Jesus and women.

4. He was promoted to full professor.

5. BYU has done what about this?

When I think that David Bokovoy, Ph.D. Brandeis University, was turned down for employment by the same institution that employs this character, I have to say that this does not look good for BYU.

Loyalty and bogus boosterism over education and integrity, evidently.

If he went to Trinity College and Theological Seminary, this is on their web page:

Quote:
We are not affiliated (accredited) with any regional or national accrediting agency and have operated, successfully, as a school of ministry for over 45 years with students graduating and serving in a variety of areas including teaching, preaching, missions, and counseling. Trinity clearly understands the purpose of accreditation. However, as noted by the US Department of Education, and all US DOE recognized accreditors, accreditation is a voluntary process.


See https://trinitysem.edu/about-trinity/accreditation/

The publisher of many of his books is Cedar Fort, in Springville, a decidedly non-academic publisher.

See http://www.cedarfort.com

Cedar Fort released a “deluxe” edition of his gospel symbols book last year. Yikes.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:01 am 
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Perhaps this is a cultural problem within the Mormon church? Lying for the lord and plagiarism have origins back to Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith's bible "translation" was lifted from Clark, he made up the bofm using the bible, made up the d&c revelations, the obvious book of abraham invention is part of this, his deception and lying regarding polygamy play a part, and on and on. Mormons were taught to lie regarding polygamy in the late 1800's when the feds were after the church leaders. Further, we saw how Dunn lied and other G.A.'s have been caught exaggerating their stories recently. So, is it any wonder that DCP plagiarizes as long as the ends justify it? The above BYU professor is just following a Mormon tradition?

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:50 am 
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Given that one of the prevailing theories is that the Book of Mormon is plagiarized, and given that the Joseph Smith version of the bible was plagiarized (that study last year pointed this out) I would propose that Mormons are quite comfortable with plagiarism.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:14 pm 
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SteelHead wrote:
Given that one of the prevailing theories is that the Book of Mormon is plagiarized, and given that the Joseph Smith version of the bible was plagiarized (that study last year pointed this out) I would propose that Mormons are quite comfortable with plagiarism.


"What many people call sin is not sin; I do many things to break down superstition, and I will break it down." --Joseph Smith Jr.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper ... addenda/20

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Joseph Smith smith plagiarized the "Inspired Translation" of the bible from Adam Clarke's biblical commentary - as published by BYU (the researcher, Haley, finished her degree then came out as ex-mormon on the exmormon reddit sub):

http://jur.BYU.edu/?p=21296

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:21 pm 
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SteelHead wrote:
Joseph Smith smith plagiarized the "Inspired Translation" of the bible from Adam Clarke's biblical commentary - as published by BYU (the researcher, Haley, finished her degree then came out as ex-mormon on the exmormon reddit sub):

http://jur.BYU.edu/?p=21296

Quote:
Although not the official Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the JST offers many interesting insights and is an invaluable aid to biblical interpretation and understanding. It is a most fruitful source of useful information for the student of the scriptures. It is likewise a witness for the divine calling and ministry of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/bd/josep ... ranslation

It certainly is...

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:25 pm 
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In March of 1980, an article by Richard L. Jensen and Gordon Irving, titled “The Voyage of the Amazon: A Close View of One Immigrant Company,” was published in the LDS magazine, Ensign.

Peterson has twice plagiarized this article, once as part of a blog entry dated September 16, 2017, titled Charles Dickens on the Mormons, and then again on June 13, 2019, in a blog entry, titled Charles Dickens, on “the pick and flower of England.”

Neither time did he attribute any of the work to Jensen and Irving.

Jensen and Irving begin:
Jensen and Irving wrote:
In June of 1863 the Amazon, a passenger ship with 891 Latter-day Saints aboard, set sail from London. Just before the voyage, many Londoners—government officials and clergymen included--came for a firsthand look at the Mormons and their traveling arrangements. Among the visitors was author Charles Dickens,


and Peterson:
Quote:
In June 1863, the passenger ship Amazon set sail from London for America with nearly 900 Latter-day Saint emigrants aboard.  However, just before she weighed anchor, many Londoners—including both government officials and clergymen—came to take a look at the Mormons, up close and at first hand, as well as at their traveling arrangements  One of these visitors Charles Dickens,


Okay, so far pretty factual, but use and arrangement of the language is cutting it a little close.

To continue with Jensens' and Irving's sentence:
Quote:
Among the visitors was author Charles Dickens, who spent several hours on board the ship questioning British Mission President George Q. Cannon and quietly observing the Saints.


Peterson breaks up his copying by listing, unnecessarily, FOURTEEN of Dicken's works, with dates, as well as noting he is regarded as a great novelist. It doesn't obviate the plagiarism, however, which continues by adding phrase rearrangements:
Quote:
Dickens spent several hours on board the Amazon, quietly observing the Saints on the ship and interviewing George Q. Cannon, a member of the Twelve who was serving at the time as the president of the British Mission.

The original authors continue:
J & I wrote:
A month later Dickens published an account of his visit to the Mormon emigrant ship. He pointed out that these were primarily working-class people, including craftsmen in many trades. Though he remained skeptical about what the Mormons would find when they reached Utah, Dickens was impressed by their thoroughgoing organization, their calmness, and their quiet self-respect:

And after several sentences on Cannon, from Peterson,
Quote:
A month or so after his visit to the Amazon, Dickens published an account of it in an essay for the periodical All the Year Round (4 July 1863), titled “The Uncommercial Traveller.”  In his essay, he remarked that virtually all of the emigrating Latter-day Saints were tradesmen and craftsmen and their families, people of the working class.  He was worried about what these British converts to Mormonism might encounter when they actually arrived in Utah.  (He was surely familiar with the horror stories going around England at the time – which would continue for the next several generations — about the theocratic “Mormon kingdom” in the remote North American west.)  But he was deeply impressed by what he had actually seen.  The emigration was thoroughly well-organized, calm, orderly.


The original authors quote Dickens, starting with:

J&I wrote:
“I went on board their ship,” he said, “to bear testimony...


And Peterson follows suit, synonymously:
Quote:
“I went on board their ship,” he wrote, “to bear testimony...

J & I finished up their quote of Dickens, and ended with this thought:
J & I wrote:
...have often missed.” Of the people themselves Dickens wrote that had he not known they were Mormons, he would have described them as, “in their degree, the pick and flower of England.”1


Peterson also ended his quote of Dickens in the same place, and also finished with Jensen's and Irving's thought:
Peterson wrote:
have often missed.” Of the Saints themselves, Dickens confessed that, had he not known they were Mormons, he would have described them as, “in their degree, the pick and flower of England.”



Why not just give Jensen and Irving due credit for their intellectual ideas? A few synonyms, phrase rearrangements, and the insertion of some filler to spread out the plagiarism is STILL plagiarism.

Jensen and Irving's citation, missing from Peterson's use of their work:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... y?lang=eng

Peterson's plagiarisms:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... gland.html

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... rmons.html


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:50 pm 
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Ditto Copy Pasterson is too lazy to do his own work. Final answer.

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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:28 pm 
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I just noticed this comment on SeN:
Quote:
When an anonymous poster accuses a named scholar of "plagiarism" and "lying" - as the smugly spiteful "Lemmie" does - that is character assassination.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Accuses"? oh I don't think so. "Proves" is the accurate term, as the last 17 pages show. Any 'character assassination' observed by the commenter is purely self-inflicted by the plagiarizer.

If a BYU professor doesn't want to be caught plagiarizing, the best strategy is to not plagiarize.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:01 pm 
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Kiwi57 wrote:
when an anonymous poster accuses a named scholar...this is character assassination


These guys should really stop "falling for their own slanders", to borrow a phrase. If it isn't enough to push their "anonymity" agenda with Gemli, suggesting that he's incapable of being slandered or even having feelings because he doesn't post with his real name, now it's slander on its face for an anonymous person to question the track record of an onymous person, no matter what the evidence or circumstances?

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