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 Post subject: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:26 am 
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One of my purposes in life is to discover truth. To accomplish this I try to stay open-minded. Here is a quote I like:

"Let the winds of evidence blow you about as though you are a leaf, with no direction of your own. Beware lest you fight a rearguard retreat against the evidence, grudgingly conceding each foot of ground only when forced, feeling cheated. Surrender to the truth as quickly as you can." Eliezar Yudkowsky

This is opposed to the dominant LDS point of view, which might be expressed as "Stand for something, or you will fall for anything" which has been used by President Hinckley, and even John Kasich.

In my own mind, I recognize and own a bias for Jesus Christ, and, since my shelf was nuked, against the idolization of Joseph Smith. These are more emotions than reasons, although there are reasons for my biases. I do concede there are reasons to believe Jesus was just a man, as well reasons to believe that Joseph may have been inspired at times. I do believe anyone who says Joseph was %100 inspired is ignoring the evidence. I am biased, but I try to keep an open mind. Enough about me.

How about you folks. Are you open-minded? Are you biased? Are you a little of both?


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:42 am 
The Outcast
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deacon blues wrote:
One of my purposes in life is to discover truth.
Ah, as was a tag in the X-Files: "The truth is out there." Truth is a function of language. No language, no truth, no falsehoods. The search for truth is thus to find out which labels are accurate and which are not. We are throughout life exposed to--bombarded by--new verbal statements, and we are constantly sifting through to identify which are true, which are false and which are disregarded as of no consequence to us individually. What statements, about which topics and made by whom are you trying to determine are or are not accurate?
deacon blues wrote:
To accomplish this I try to stay open-minded.Here is a quote I like:

"Let the winds of evidence blow you about as though you are a leaf, with no direction of your own. Beware lest you fight a rearguard retreat against the evidence, grudgingly conceding each foot of ground only when forced, feeling cheated. Surrender to the truth as quickly as you can." Eliezar Yudkowsky
Yes, the "winds of evidence" blow you about. Evidence is a great standard for separating falsehoods from accuracies.
deacon blues wrote:
This is opposed to the dominant LDS point of view, which might be expressed as "Stand for something, or you will fall for anything" which has been used by President Hinckley, and even John Kasich.

In my own mind, I recognize and own a bias for Jesus Christ
What's the evidence for Jesus Christ?
deacon blues wrote:
, and, since my shelf was nuked, against the idolization of Joseph Smith
Nuked by evidence, right? What items of evidence weighed the heaviest on your shelf?
deacon blues wrote:
. These are more emotions than reasons
Sort of like Morris Albert's Feelings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRaI7ZOmTr4
deacon blues wrote:
, although there are reasons for my biases
That would be most interesting for us readers for you to expound upon what those reasons are.
deacon blues wrote:
. I do concede there are reasons to believe Jesus was just a man, as well reasons to believe that Joseph may have been inspired at times. I do believe anyone who says Joseph was %100 inspired is ignoring the evidence. I am biased, but I try to keep an open mind. Enough about me.
That's too bad you stopped there. It was the most interesting part of your post.
deacon blues wrote:
How about you folks. Are you open-minded? Are you biased? Are you a little of both?
I try. I am, but I try to compensate for it. Yes.

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It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, ... that Negroes...are not entitled to the Priesthood at the present time.
LDS First Presidency, 8/17/1949

"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:43 am 
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I think it's safe to say that everyone has biases and we should guard against them. I also think that apologists use the concept of bias inappropriately to lessen their obviously overwhelming bias when confronted with evidence against their Mormon church fantasies.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:56 am 
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Exiled wrote:
I think it's safe to say that everyone has biases and we should guard against them. I also think that apologists use the concept of bias inappropriately to lessen their obviously overwhelming bias when confronted with evidence against their Mormon church fantasies.


Those with extreme bias often like to suggest we all have the same amount of bias, and that those critical of their beliefs are equally biased against those beliefs.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:58 am 
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sock puppet wrote:
The search for truth is thus to find out which labels are accurate and which are not. We are throughout life exposed to--bombarded by--new verbal statements, and we are constantly sifting through to identify which are true, which are false and which are disregarded as of no consequence to us individually. What statements, about which topics and made by whom are you trying to determine are or are not accurate?


*insert meme*

*youmadethisimadethis.exe

Sorry, dude. Imma steal it and copyright it. But, seriously I'm going to use this moving forward.

- doc

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In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:10 pm 
The Outcast
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
The search for truth is thus to find out which labels are accurate and which are not. We are throughout life exposed to--bombarded by--new verbal statements, and we are constantly sifting through to identify which are true, which are false and which are disregarded as of no consequence to us individually. What statements, about which topics and made by whom are you trying to determine are or are not accurate?


*insert meme*

*youmadethisimadethis.exe

Sorry, dude. Imma steal it and copyright it. But, seriously I'm going to use this moving forward.

- doc

You may freely do so without me complaining, even to Dr Shades, that there is some kind of nefarious, illegal use at play.

I find that the phrases 'search for truth' and 'search for the meaning of life' to be a couple of canards. I don't mean anything disparaging to deacon blues for using 'search for truth', as it is commonly used particularly in religious settings (and this is Mormon Discussions). But I would like to have deacon peel the onion back a few layers and be more specific.

As to the meaning of life, that's rather presumptuous that there would be one, universal meaning to life for everyone.

But both of these phrases are used like mantras repeated over and over without specification of what the individual speaker is alluding to, but that we should all understand and accept them as finite questions that are pertinent to us all. Such notions likely appeal to teenagers and young adults, but for anyone that's been much further down this road of life, such seem to be rather facile phrases.

_________________
It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, ... that Negroes...are not entitled to the Priesthood at the present time.
LDS First Presidency, 8/17/1949

"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:30 pm 
God
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Great thoughts, Sock.

Your life is greater, more complex than a map or a narrative...those neat constructions of taped together symbols and cliches. :wink: Those who sell you salvation in a can, er, book, have found a commodity that plays to those sensibilities. It's emotional/spiritual/metaphysical snake oil, with its eager defenders and promoters and inevitable placebo successes.

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"It is worth repeating--with drum roll, please: "without evidence what you say is worthless". That is the vast chasm at play here on MormonDiscussions in almost all substantive disagreement." — SockPuppet


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Yeah, I really like that it's boiled down to: Is this accurate?

That just cuts through so much chaff.

- Doc

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In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:20 pm 
Area Authority

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:51 pm
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Yeah, I really like that it's boiled down to: Is this accurate?

That just cuts through so much chaff.

- Doc


So I googled truth synonyms, and the first one listed was accuracy. (The list was alphabetical) :biggrin: There are around forty other synonyms listed, but.......

Truth and/or accuracy are important, but the discussion could go on forever, so.....

.... I was hoping to make this thread about biases (hopefully not too boring) and how we perceive and deal with them, in ourselves and others. I don't claim any special insight on truth, or even bias, although I think my bias for Jesus Christ may go back to Christmas Eve Nativity stories around the fireplace. I listed two biases I have, just to try to open up the conversation. For all I know I might be the only biased poster on this site, but I don't believe I am. So maybe my title should have been, "Are you biased?" I just thought "Are you open-minded sounded more positive.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:14 pm 
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deacon blues wrote:
I am biased, but I try to keep an open mind...

How about you folks. Are you open-minded? Are you biased? Are you a little of both?


Yes. Yes. Yes.

My #1 bias/default that everything else is built upon, is that there is a creator/God and that we are created in His image. All else trickles out from there.

But am I open to the possibility that there isn't a creator/God? Sure. Personally, however, I think it's a safer bet to have a bias/default for the opposing point of view.

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:35 pm 
God

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mentalgymnast wrote:
deacon blues wrote:
I am biased, but I try to keep an open mind...

How about you folks. Are you open-minded? Are you biased? Are you a little of both?


Yes. Yes. Yes.

My #1 bias/default that everything else is built upon, is that there is a creator/God and that we are created in His image. All else trickles out from there.

But am I open to the possibility that there isn't a creator/God? Sure. Personally, however, I think it's a safer bet to have a bias/default for the opposing point of view.

Regards,
MG


MG, your #1 bias/default is the church. God is only your excuse for the church.

Plenty of people lean towards a bias of God. It's quite another thing to stake that claim into a homophobic, misogynistic, racist hate cult and "bias/default" to that position.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:48 pm 
God

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Sanctorian wrote:

MG, your #1 bias/default is the church.


I'll repeat. My #1 bias/default is belief in a creator/God and that we are created in His image/likeness.

All else trickles downstream from that. Belief in God is foundational to ALL else. Including beliefs/propositions/possibilities in regards to the CofJCofLDS.

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Are you open-minded?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:06 pm 
God

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mentalgymnast wrote:
Sanctorian wrote:

MG, your #1 bias/default is the church.


I'll repeat. My #1 bias/default is belief in a creator/God and that we are created in His image/likeness.

All else trickles downstream from that. Belief in God is foundational to ALL else. Including beliefs/propositions/possibilities in regards to the CofJCofLDS.

Regards,
MG


Sorry dude. Not buying it. It's my observation your #1 bias is the church with God taking a distant second. I've seen little on this board to suggest otherwise. I'm also fairly confident your personal actions reflect your bias towards the church and God taking a second position to that.

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