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 Post subject: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:24 am 
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I got an email from a friend who happens to have been made second counselor in the newly organized stake presidency.

My friend said the stake president wants to meet with me tomorrow night at 7:30.

Here is what the email said:

Quote:
Consiglieri,

Sorry for my long delayed response! I apologize for not having reached out at all last couple months. Hope things are going well for you. I’ve caught a couple of your Radio Free Mormon podcasts! I have to say I had the same reaction you did to Pres. Nelson’s story in April 2017 conference re: the Laurel who didn’t participate in a HS state competition so she could attend/participate in a stake RS meeting.

We have a new stake president, who’s a great guy. He’d like a chance to meet you and asked me to reach out to see if you have availability either this Thursday (9/14) at 7:30 pm or this Sunday (9/17) at 3:00 pm. He and I have spoken about some happenings in the stake, and he’s hoping to expand his understanding about a variety of things.

Let me know if one of those times works and I’ll confirm with him.

Thanks,



Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:28 am 
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Wear a wire.


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:28 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
I got an email from a friend who happens to have been made second counselor in the newly organized stake presidency.

My friend said the stake president wants to meet with me tomorrow night at 7:30.

Here is what the email said:

Quote:
Consiglieri,

Sorry for my long delayed response! I apologize for not having reached out at all last couple months. Hope things are going well for you. I’ve caught a couple of your Radio Free Mormon podcasts! I have to say I had the same reaction you did to Pres. Nelson’s story in April 2017 conference re: the Laurel who didn’t participate in a HS state competition so she could attend/participate in a stake RS meeting.

We have a new stake president, who’s a great guy. He’d like a chance to meet you and asked me to reach out to see if you have availability either this Thursday (9/14) at 7:30 pm or this Sunday (9/17) at 3:00 pm. He and I have spoken about some happenings in the stake, and he’s hoping to expand his understanding about a variety of things.

Let me know if one of those times works and I’ll confirm with him.

Thanks,



Thoughts?


My practice, after a few bad experiences, is to ask what they want to talk to me about before I'll agree to see them. If the stake president wants to talk to you about something you're comfortable talking about, that's one thing, but if they are calling you in to call you to repentance and/or threaten you with discipline, you don't have to go if you don't want to.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 am 
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I sure hope they don't mess with you Consig.


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:38 am 
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He can literally reach out to you or come to you. This odd power play where you have to go into his office is odd, especially considering you two are adults.

Anyway. If you decide you want to meet with him offer to do so while hiking or over a meal. He's not your employer. He's not your dad. He has no authority other than what you decide to give him. Make him the equal or subordinate he really is.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:44 am 
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I'm guessing it's going to be for a calling, or to talk at something.

At least that's the only reason they ever reach out to me out of the blue. I fly lower under the radar than you though, so... *shrug*

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:46 am 
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Doctor Steuss wrote:
I'm guessing it's going to be for a calling, or to talk at something.

At least that's the only reason they ever reach out to me out of the blue. I fly lower under the radar than you though, so... *shrug*


I wouldn't assume that. I've been asked to come in a few times, and after a few times when it was almost an interrogation about why I don't come to church, I came up with my rule: find out what they want, and go only if I want to.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:12 pm 
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I actually kind of like going in and having a conversation where I point out various logical problems in the church. I think it does these leaders good to be exposed to the issues. I got invited to the current bishop's office and had him admitting that his experiences with the holy ghost could all be his imagination and all sorts of stuff like that. I was really friendly and so was he, but it was a world of difference between what he said in his office and what he says from the pulpit. Our current bishop is a physicist and is quite reasonable and nice.

Of course, I am resigned so there is no question that I will be disciplined or extended a calling in these meetings. I also established the ground rule that it was to be a conversation of understanding before we even started. I told him I was not interested in a conversation where we were telling each other that the other is wrong. We both stuck to the program in that respect.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Church leadership has as much power as you give them and does not understand healthy boundaries. It is perfectly reasonable to ask what is the topic to be discussed before agreeing to a meeting.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Brother Consig, it's so nice to meet you. I've heard so much about you. Oh by the way, those Apostolic Coup-D-Etat podcasts, you are going to need to pull those down or I'll have to call a court of love for you.

Other than that, how is your family doing?

Sorry guys, he has all the authority over Consig that he needs and wants, in regards to Consig's membership.


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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:27 pm 
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I have never had a phone call or an email in which the stake president asked me for a visit or meeting.

This isn't random and it probably isn't just to get to know you better.

In Mormonism one gets disciplined for failing to follow instructions from leadership.

Don't give them the chance to give you "instructions".

Asking them what the meeting is about is no guarantee that the meeting will be limited to what ever answer they give.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:31 pm 
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I think if you're going to the principal's office, you should take a buddy with you. Like a wife type buddy. Go make friends as a couple.

;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Wear a wire.


Take out your cell phone and start it on video. That way you get the audio. Not that I would know anything about wearing a wire of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:23 pm 
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First, ask what it'll be about.
Second, make sure that it's at your house, not at his office.
Third, call him by his first name, not by his title.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Runtu wrote:
My practice, after a few bad experiences, is to ask what they want to talk to me about before I'll agree to see them. If the stake president wants to talk to you about something you're comfortable talking about, that's one thing, but if they are calling you in to call you to repentance and/or threaten you with discipline, you don't have to go if you don't want to.


I have already obtained assurances that it isn't about calling me to repentance.

We'll see what those assurances are worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:32 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
I sure hope they don't mess with you Consig.


They might be more worried about me messing with them.

But probably not.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
He can literally reach out to you or come to you. This odd power play where you have to go into his office is odd, especially considering you two are adults.

Anyway. If you decide you want to meet with him offer to do so while hiking or over a meal. He's not your employer. He's not your dad. He has no authority other than what you decide to give him. Make him the equal or subordinate he really is.

- Doc


This is a good point, and something raised to me by another friend.

I have already agreed to meet at this office, but I do have to say this is a good point.

Beyond that the power play ends.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Doctor Steuss wrote:
I'm guessing it's going to be for a calling, or to talk at something.

At least that's the only reason they ever reach out to me out of the blue. I fly lower under the radar than you though, so... *shrug*


Maybe a calling to the high council?

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Runtu wrote:

I wouldn't assume that. I've been asked to come in a few times, and after a few times when it was almost an interrogation about why I don't come to church, I came up with my rule: find out what they want, and go only if I want to.


A suppose a valid response would be that I will start going back to church when they start giving me something to go back to church for.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:36 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
I have already obtained assurances that it isn't about calling me to repentance.

We'll see what those assurances are worth.


About 5 years ago, I went to a stake conference with my wife, and the stake president said that anyone who was struggling with historical or doctrinal questions should make an appointment to see him, as he was sure he could help. My wife said he was obviously meaning someone like me. So, just for the heck of it, I went and saw him. He basically said that he recognized the same problems I did, and acknowledged that, if he didn't have a testimony, it would seem like an obvious fraud to him. But he gave me a couple of names: Spencer Fluhman, with whom I had a really great conversation, and Kerry Muhlestein. Being familiar with Muhlestein's work, I declined to contact him.

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 Post subject: Re: Stake President Wants to Talk with Me
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:36 pm 
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fetchface wrote:
I actually kind of like going in and having a conversation where I point out various logical problems in the church. I think it does these leaders good to be exposed to the issues. I got invited to the current bishop's office and had him admitting that his experiences with the holy ghost could all be his imagination and all sorts of stuff like that. I was really friendly and so was he, but it was a world of difference between what he said in his office and what he says from the pulpit. Our current bishop is a physicist and is quite reasonable and nice.

Of course, I am resigned so there is no question that I will be disciplined or extended a calling in these meetings. I also established the ground rule that it was to be a conversation of understanding before we even started. I told him I was not interested in a conversation where we were telling each other that the other is wrong. We both stuck to the program in that respect.


Sounds like you have had good conversations. I hope mine will be like that.

I think you make a good point about engaging in a positive exchange of ideas. I will try to remember that.

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