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 Post subject: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:13 pm 
God
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Radio Free Mormon put up a brief update yesterday on the progress being made in the requests to the Brigham Young University Police for an unredacted copy of the police reports.

Links to the reports and the letters back and forth with the police department are included in the show notes.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... on-update/

All the Best!

Consiglieri

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:21 pm 
God

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Just curious Consig. Where you have more knowledge about this than most of us..(and we know more because of you) where would you like this to end. In your mind, for this woman, her family and all involved, where would you find the most healing...and all this goes with Bishop's family too. Where is that line with justice and long time healing will meet?

I thank you so much for all your time and efforts..finding truth is never easy in the seas of lies..hopefully there are waves that will bring to the sand and shore restitution and peace.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:48 pm 
God
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I wonder why the media stopped their investigation of police report? The redacted portion might have information about the possible church connection, e.g., Bishop mentioning that he spoke to church officials. I wonder if the church contacted the media in furtherance of the cover-up? Surely, if the church is mentioned in the redacted portion, the church is pulling the strings in the denials by the BYU police, a further cover-up.

I can't wait to see what the reason will be if you are further denied. The U.S. government likes to use the incredibly broad "national security" excuse. Maybe the Mormon part of the nation will be harmed to find out that their church likes covering things up and so the security of the Mormon part of the nation will be harmed? :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:53 pm 
God

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What could there possibly be to keep hidden? My guess, based on the process of elimination, is that the still redacted part can only be a confession of an additional offence, or the name of a senior Church Leader. I’m leaning towards the latter. I hope RFM sees this through and ges it unredacted.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
I wonder why the media stopped their investigation of police report? The redacted portion might have information about the possible church connection, e.g., Bishop mentioning that he spoke to church officials. I wonder if the church contacted the media in furtherance of the cover-up? Surely, if the church is mentioned in the redacted portion, the church is pulling the strings in the denials by the BYU police, a further cover-up.


Most likely, the media received a similar response and are pursuing the same appeal process, with possible litigation if the appeal is denied.

It appears that most of the redactions were appropriate, as from the context it's fairly easy to conclude that the redactions were of personal and protected information. A few of the redactions are not so clear, as they appear to be full sentences where it would be less likely for the entire sentence to be protected. But we don't know for sure, so I think it's unwise and premature to speculate about that information may be and why it was redacted.

I believe Consiglieri has a sold argument that, at a minimum, there needs to be a more specific explanation for the redactions than a simple "no more will be forthcoming."

The church may be able to control Deseret News, but I doubt many other media outlets would back off so easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:28 pm 
God
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toon wrote:
Exiled wrote:
I wonder why the media stopped their investigation of police report? The redacted portion might have information about the possible church connection, e.g., Bishop mentioning that he spoke to church officials. I wonder if the church contacted the media in furtherance of the cover-up? Surely, if the church is mentioned in the redacted portion, the church is pulling the strings in the denials by the BYU police, a further cover-up.


Most likely, the media received a similar response and are pursuing the same appeal process, with possible litigation if the appeal is denied.

It appears that most of the redactions were appropriate, as from the context it's fairly easy to conclude that the redactions were of personal and protected information. A few of the redactions are not so clear, as they appear to be full sentences where it would be less likely for the entire sentence to be protected. But we don't know for sure, so I think it's unwise and premature to speculate about that information may be and why it was redacted.

I believe Consiglieri has a sold argument that, at a minimum, there needs to be a more specific explanation for the redactions than a simple "no more will be forthcoming."

The church may be able to control Deseret News, but I doubt many other media outlets would back off so easily.


Consig says in his podcast that he has many contacts in the media and that they had all moved on to a new news cycle. Perhaps there are some at KUTV and other outlets that are still continuing to try and get at the redacted sentences? Surely, however, a completely redacted sentence warrants further discovery given how, at first, the BYU police almost redacted the entire report. There has to be something juicy other than just names under there and one must necessarily speculate as to what could be there prior to continuing to push for disclosure. Else, why bother pursuing this if there wasn't some prior speculation as to the remaining redacted portion being something like Bishop saying he spoke with so and so at headquarters, etc.? Why not speculate? I couldn't give a rats ___ about the downside of speculation here. The church has certainly covered this up and because of this, I suspect, like probably most here do, that the redacted portion remaining has to do with the church and would be embarrassing to it. Of course it could be benign. Maybe Bishop was praising the church and the church doesn't want to seem to conceited? :lol: In any event, what could it be? Let's hear your speculation on the subject. It's no sin to make a guess and you can even couch your guess with some "we don't know and I am just guessing" language, etc., etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:10 pm 
God
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candygal wrote:
Just curious Consig. Where you have more knowledge about this than most of us..(and we know more because of you) where would you like this to end. In your mind, for this woman, her family and all involved, where would you find the most healing...and all this goes with Bishop's family too. Where is that line with justice and long time healing will meet?



I think healing would be best served by accountability to those involved.

It would be great if they could accept accountability.

But given that is a really long shot, maybe if they were held accountable in the court of public opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:14 pm 
God
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I have a question wrote:
What could there possibly be to keep hidden? My guess, based on the process of elimination, is that the still redacted part can only be a confession of an additional offence, or the name of a senior Church Leader. I’m leaning towards the latter. I hope RFM sees this through and ges it unredacted.


Those are my gut instincts, as well.

I have some intel that it is possible what may be redacted (at least in part) is reference to the fact the interviews were recorded.

If so, it may be that the BYU Police does not want the public to know the interview with Joseph Bishop was taped.

And that is probably because they don't want to make public the tape of the interview.

I doubt the BYU Police traveled all the way to Arizona to have an interview with Bishop that could be fairly and accurately synopsized in one paragraph of police reports.

This may be bolstered by the fact the BYU Police released to McKenna an audio tape of her interview, but has apparently refused to give her a copy of the audio tape of the interview with Bishop.

Of course, GRAMA applies equally to audio recordings as to written reports.

Hence my second GRAMA request to the BYU Police Department.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Couldn't BYU simply claim the audio tape of the interview was appropriated by a sword-wielding angel who took it to an unknown location?

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:49 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Couldn't BYU simply claim the audio tape of the interview was appropriated by a sword-wielding angel who took it to an unknown location?


I don't think that is a legally cognizable exception to the disclosure requirement.


:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 am 
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Am I right in thinking that Joseph L Bishop is still a current member of the Church?

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Am I right in thinking that Joseph L Bishop is still a current member of the Church?


As far as we know, yes. And as far as we know, he hasn’t had any kind of formal church discipline relating to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:45 am 
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RFM and other lawyers,

Where does the lawsuits go from here? Can you give us a sequence of what happens and estimates of when? Will the two suits line up in this sequence and timeline?


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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:19 am 
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RockSlider wrote:
RFM and other lawyers,

Where does the lawsuits go from here? Can you give us a sequence of what happens and estimates of when? Will the two suits line up in this sequence and timeline?


I expect McKenna's lawyer, Craig Vernon, will be seeking these same police reports. But because he has filed a lawsuit, he can pursue them by means of a subpoena.

In the case of somebody who, like me, is trying to get these records through a GRAMA request, the next steps are these: If Chief Stott denies my request, I then appeal to the Records Committee in the State of Utah, which has broad powers in resolving these types of disputes.

The general procedure is for the Records Committee to obtain a confidential and completely unredacted copy of the reports (or audio) in question, then make a decision as to whether the legal reason given by the police department for not providing the records is applicable.

If the Records Committee agrees with the Police Department, the reports (or audio) remain redacted or undisclosed.

If the Records Committee does not agree with the Police Department, the reports (or audio) are ordered to be redacted and/or disclosed.

A similar procedure may then be followed to the District Court with venue to hear this matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:47 am 
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nevermind. I see Consig answered my question.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Just got some additional information on those police reports.

Not from the police, but from a different source.

I now know some of the information in some of the redactions. There are parts still redacted that I have not been able to gain access to.

PAGE 6--In the two lines immediately after Joseph Bishop tells the police "the room did not have a bed, TV or VHS tapes," the redacted portion reads: "He said he also gave a backrub to ____ _____ where he rubbed her buttocks. ____ _____ was living in his house at the time." The following two lines remain redacted.

Note this is the sister missionary who tried to kill herself at the MTC. After that, Joseph Bishop took her into his home to help her recuperate. I know the name of this girl, but am not disclosing it.

PAGE 7--The first redacted line at the end of the first paragraph, right after, "He (Bishop) said he didn't remember when ___ confronted him about the rape," states: "A copy of the recording is attached to this report. Refer to the recording for more details."


It appears the police did not want the public to know there was a separate audio recording of their interview with Joseph Bishop that contained "more details."

PAGE 9--The three lines redacted here read: "McKenna Denson sent me a rough draft of her statement through email. However, the case was closed before she was able to send me a completed version." I think the last line of this paragraph is still redacted.

It appears the police didn't want the public to know about McKenna sending in a rough draft of her statement.

If anybody has any additional thoughts on why BYU Police wouldn't want these aspects released to the public, I am all ears.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:24 pm 
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A sister missionary tried to commit suicide on her mission, so her Mission President, Bishop, moved her in with him and then sexually abused her...Have I got that right?

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:29 pm 
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That is my understanding.

And before she attempted suicide at the MTC, this sister missionary is the one who was meeting with Joseph Bishop together with McKenna Denson.

After the four sister missionaries (of which she was one, as well) were whittled down to two.

And before McKenna was whittled down to one.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:37 pm 
God

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consiglieri wrote:
That is my understanding.

And before she attempted suicide at the MTC, this sister missionary is the one who was meeting with Joseph Bishop together with McKenna Denson.

After the four sister missionaries (of which she was one, as well) were whittled down to two.

And before McKenna was whittled down to one.


The Holy Ghost is notoriously bad at protecting leaders from appointing sexual predators to positions with access to victims and power over them. Even when those Church leaders know the appointee is a potential sexual predator. #spiritofdiscernment

I hope the other victims find the courage to sue the Church and Joseph Bishop.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Am I understanding this right? The police released an incomplete transcript and redacted information that would let the reader know it was incomplete?

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 Post subject: Re: Update on RFM Request for Unredacted BYU Police Reports
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:53 pm 
God

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This is a sick man on many levels...How could one...anyone not see this??? I am just sick about the whole thing. Meaning..I am pissed!


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