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 Post subject: MD&D Reaches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:43 pm 
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In a classic move taken from the pages of the Uber Alt-Right, I've been called a racist because I had the audacity of pointing out the racist policies of the LDS church. This diversionary tactic to a well used tool of the alt right to direct attention away from the subject and on the person focusing the spot light on the problem. So I'm the racist for pointing out their racist policies...umm ok

The church has had 100 opportunities to call a men of color into the apostleship and for 100 strait openings they have instead chosen to fill these openings with White men. In a new thread (which I've now been banned from, in keeping with their Nazi tradition of banning all free speech) Stemelbow started a thread on the recent podcast on Mormon stories featuring Sean Carter an African American Mormon who has recently left the church over its White Supremacy policies. Sean defines white supremacy by the fact that the church keeps filling apostle vacancies with white men instead of choosing to diversify with men of color. keep in mind that nearly 50% of the church population is non-white...and yet the 12 remains a whites only country club.

Anyway...again they can kiss my ass

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Last edited by Craig Paxton on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
In a classic move taken from the pages of the Uber Alt-Right American Left, I've been called a racist because I had the audacity of pointing out the racist policies of the LDS church. This diversionary tactic to a well used tool of the alt right American Left to direct attention away from the subject and on the person focusing the spot light on the problem. So I'm the racist for pointing out their racist policies...umm ok

The church has had 100 opportunities to call a men of color into the apostleship and for 100 strait openings they have instead chosen to fill these openings with White man. In a new thread (which I've now been banned from, in keeping with their Nazi <-
Typical Leftist tactic of Godwin'ing
tradition of banning all free speech) Stemelbow started a thread on the recent podcast on Mormon stories featuring Sean ??? a recently lapse African American Mormon who has recently left the church over its White Supremacy policies. Sean defines white supremacy by the fact that the church keeps filling apostle vacancies with white men instead of choosing to diversify with men of color. keep in mind that nearly 50% of the church population ins non-white...and yet the 12 remains a whiles only country club.

Anyway...again they can kiss my ass

Fixed it for you.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Boy, you're a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

Of course, you are making a good point and it shames believers to see that there is no racial diversity still at the upper levels. Their reaction will be to lash out at you rather than face the problem, that their God doesn't seem to want leaders of African descent in the quorum of the 12.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:33 pm 
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I have been reading this thread during the day..I want to post ...but I get the shakes when I even think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
In a classic move taken from the pages of the Uber Alt-Right, I've been called a racist because I had the audacity of pointing out the racist policies of the LDS church. This diversionary tactic to a well used tool of the alt right to direct attention away from the subject and on the person focusing the spot light on the problem. So I'm the racist for pointing out their racist policies...umm ok

The church has had 100 opportunities to call a men of color into the apostleship and for 100 strait openings they have instead chosen to fill these openings with White men. In a new thread (which I've now been banned from, in keeping with their Nazi tradition of banning all free speech) Stemelbow started a thread on the recent podcast on Mormon stories featuring Sean Carter an African American Mormon who has recently left the church over its White Supremacy policies. Sean defines white supremacy by the fact that the church keeps filling apostle vacancies with white men instead of choosing to diversify with men of color. keep in mind that nearly 50% of the church population is non-white...and yet the 12 remains a whites only country club.

Anyway...again they can kiss my ass


This is the classic tactic over there: the 180 defense of accusing the opponent of what they, themselves are actually doing. Point out to Robert Smith how Mormonism and scientific reasoning don't mix and he will accuse you of not being scientific, without answering the question of course.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Craig, can you clarify? I've seen (even recently just can't place it) apologists call critics racist when they call the church racist, it the typical "nuh uh, it's you!" fashion. In all cases they mean the critic is racist against people of color.

It almost sounds to me like you're saying by calling the church racist, you are being racist against white people. I can only honestly give it a 2% chance that's what you're saying because that's an extreme scenario I've never seen before in the worst of Mopologetics, but, I just want to be sure.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:50 pm 
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candygal wrote:
I have been reading this thread during the day..I want to post ...but I get the shakes when I even think about it.


It is just not worth it. Their minds are made up and anything that might put the church in a slightly non-positive light will be viciously opposed. There are no open minds with that apologetic crowd.

On some level, I think they all know their Mormon world is stinking and becoming more of a non-issue with each passing day.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Umm, . . . you forgot to post a link to the thread in question.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:07 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
Keep in mind that nearly 50% of the church population is non-white...and yet the 12 remains a whites only country club.

It was explained on that board some time ago that this situation exists because non-caucasians have not spent enough generational time in the Church to merit being called to be an apostle. Whites were allowed from the git-go to be in the top echelons of God's True Church because of their decorated combat status in the Heaven War.


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Anyway...again they can kiss my ass

You do know many of them monitor this board, right? They will be upset that you are bad mouthing them here where they cannot give you a time out or perform some other type of an excruciation to redeem you for further posting. This might force their hand in terms of demanding either a ceremony of extreme unction or else a blood atonement on your part.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:21 am 
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moksha wrote:
Craig Paxton wrote:
Keep in mind that nearly 50% of the church population is non-white...and yet the 12 remains a whites only country club.

It was explained on that board some time ago that this situation exists because non-caucasians have not spent enough generational time in the Church to merit being called to be an apostle. Whites were allowed from the git-go to be in the top echelons of God's True Church because of their decorated combat status in the Heaven War.

Quote:
Anyway...again they can kiss my ass

You do know many of them monitor this board, right? They will be upset that you are bad mouthing them here where they cannot give you a time out or perform some other type of an excruciation to redeem you for further posting. This might force their hand in terms of demanding either a ceremony of extreme unction or else a blood atonement on your part.

Well for those that are monitoring me here let me repeat...you can kiss my ass.

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"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:31 am 
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Gadianton wrote:
Craig, can you clarify? I've seen (even recently just can't place it) apologists call critics racist when they call the church racist, it the typical "nuh uh, it's you!" fashion. In all cases they mean the critic is racist against people of color.

It almost sounds to me like you're saying by calling the church racist, you are being racist against white people. I can only honestly give it a 2% chance that's what you're saying because that's an extreme scenario I've never seen before in the worst of Mopologetics, but, I just want to be sure.

Here a link for those interested:
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/695 ... ur-former/

here's a typical accusation:(Keep in mind that I've yet to do anything but point out the obvious that the church has filled 100 opportunities with 100 white men...that is my crime)

Smac Says:

Racebaiting is "fun"?

Oh. Right.  So you come here and racebait not on principle, but just for kicks and giggles?  
What an utterly contemptible, ugly thing to do.

I suppose.

We will, however, continue to disagree about your disgusting racebaiting.

It is hugely ironic that the principal racebaiter in this thread is now calling for something that will be "cathartic."
Stoking racial animosity ("Ok I've had my fun...") is not cathartic.
Casual and baseless accusations of racial hatred - as you have done - is not "cathartic."
-Smac

My Reply (Johnnie Cake AKA Craig Paxton)

So telling it like it is...is now race baiting?  What an utterly contemptible, ugly thing to do.  I flatly reject your assertion that I was race baiting.  Speaking truth and pointing a spot light on the churches record of 100 out of 100 apostolic openings being filled by white men is not race baiting...its telling the truth...however your use of the term in this thread, as a diversionary tactic, certainly mirrors rightwing wacko's who use the term race baiting to deflect attention away from those who expose race inequities.   But then you already knew you were using a tactic of the uber alt right didn't you....nice try.

And then this comment by Robert F Smith: 

Aside from the unfortunate knee-jerk racism of Johnnie Cake, you make an interesting point, sometimes  The original 12 were not only from Palestine, but they were all Jews

WTF??? Where in this entire thread did I do anything other than point out that the church has put 100 white men in the apostleship every time they've had an opportunity to fill an apostolic position out of 100 opportunities...and I'm the one with a racist agenda. and then they Banned me...crazy town over there.

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"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick


Last edited by Craig Paxton on Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:33 am 
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Craig I fail to get your attraction to that other board. To me a visit to that board is like slopping the hogs in your dress shoes and expecting to keep them shiny and clean.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:51 am 
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Tator wrote:
Craig I fail to get your attraction to that other board. To me a visit to that board is like slopping the hogs in your dress shoes and expecting to keep them shiny and clean.


I enjoy the joust, the back and forth and the quick response time...that said, there must be something mentally wrong with me. I love watching and learning what makes them tick. How they are able to navigate their mental Mormon mind F ***. But for the life of me I can't wrap my head around how they are able to continue to believe that ____ despite it all...that they are able to...fascinates me. The degree of nuance in their beliefs has caused such a distorted believe system that they've literally created a new church within Mormonism. Were they to teach what they believe in the actual church many would face discipline for apostasy...and yet they can spew their distorted nuanced belief on MD&D with impunity and receive mutual support form their like minded nuanced church members

I'm under no delusions of thinking I can effect change in any of them...

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"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:26 am 
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Robert F Smith wrote:
Aside from the unfortunate knee-jerk racism of Johnnie Cake, you make an interesting point, sometimes  The original 12 were not only from Palestine, but they were all Jews

While Lehi and Co's DNA makeup remains a mystery to the faithful.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:12 am 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
The degree of nuance in their beliefs has caused such a distorted believe system that they've literally created a new church within Mormonism. Were they to teach what they believe in the actual church many would face discipline for apostasy...and yet they can spew their distorted nuanced belief on MD&D with impunity and receive mutual support form their like minded nuanced church members.

Craig, have you read my essay on Internet Mormonism vs. Chapel Mormonism? If not, it's at:

http://www.mormoninformation.com/imvscm.htm

I'd like to hear your thoughts on how the principles contained therein apply, or don't apply, to what you see going on at MD&D.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Dr. Shades,

Would you be good enough to put this in the Thread Hall of Fame? It's a watershed moment in online Mormon discussions. It's also a must-read take on Mormonism in the 21st century,

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:36 pm 
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I found the actual interview enjoyable. Good perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Craig Paxton wrote:
The degree of nuance in their beliefs has caused such a distorted believe system that they've literally created a new church within Mormonism. Were they to teach what they believe in the actual church many would face discipline for apostasy...and yet they can spew their distorted nuanced belief on MD&D with impunity and receive mutual support form their like minded nuanced church members.

Craig, have you read my essay on Internet Mormonism vs. Chapel Mormonism? If not, it's at:

http://www.mormoninformation.com/imvscm.htm

I'd like to hear your thoughts on how the principles contained therein apply, or don't apply, to what you see going on at MD&D.

Thanks!



Yes I read it years ago...You were way ahead of your time, cutting edge a seer and prophet...by recognizing that there are multiple churches within Mormonism...the chapel Mormon and the internet Mormon...but I'm going to re-read it...thanks for sharing it again... I have no doubt that the internet Mormon's have fragmented even further in the years since you first recognized this phenomium in Mormonism. Now in order to accommodate all of the ____ that's hit the fan since....there has been an even greater fragmentation and nuancing of belief within the church...or so it seems. We've seen this same fragmentation also with in the chapel Mormon ...what with the wacko alt-right snufferites and all.

PS. What year did you write this?

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"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Reaches New Low...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:35 pm 
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I am still incredibly disgusted with them. Back when I was TBM, years before I left, I decided to debate on a forum for atheists. I was immediately stung by a mixture of merciless profanity and rationality. As much as the profanity offended, I can say that the posters there generally had more integrity than the principals at MD&D.


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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
PS. What year did you write this?

I think it was 2004.

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 Post subject: Re: MD&D Raches New Low...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Craig Paxton wrote:
Tator wrote:
Craig I fail to get your attraction to that other board. To me a visit to that board is like slopping the hogs in your dress shoes and expecting to keep them shiny and clean.


I enjoy the joust, the back and forth and the quick response time...that said, there must be something mentally wrong with me. I love watching and learning what makes them tick.

I'm under no delusions of thinking I can effect change in any of them...


That pretty much wraps up a portion of my reasoning as to why I participate on this board.

I think I can understand where you're coming from.

Those could be my words.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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