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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:46 pm 
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zerinus wrote:
Doctor Steuss wrote:
In other words, it's your fault Consiglieri.
His question is just impertinent.


Apparently there are some questions that shouldn't be asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
President Monson taught us how to go shopping.


OMG That was funny

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:36 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
A message from President Monson is featured on the front page of LDS.org.

https://www.LDS.org/liahona/2017/09/pro ... _&lang=eng

He considers the lives of various church presidents and synopsizes the main thing he learned from each.

Strangely, he doesn't mention a single revelation, even when he is talking about President Kimball.

1. From President Grant, he learns persistence.

2. From George Albert Smith he learns to stay on the Lord's side.

3. From David O. McKay he learns consideration for others.

4. From Joseph Fielding Smith he learned to study the scriptures.

5. From Harold B. Lee to stay in tune with the Holy Ghost.

6. From President Kimball he learned dedication.

7. From President Benson (!) he learned love. (Sort of like consideration for others from President McKay, but it's a long list and there are only so many principles to use.)

8. From President Hunter he learned courtesy. (Even closer to President McKay's consideration for others.)

9. President Hinckley taught us to do our best. (Sort of like President Grant's persistence.)

After naming all the prophets in his lifetime, President Monson (or whoever is writing this for him) goes on to state the usual trope about how this church gets revelation all the time; in fact, it is the "lifeblood" of the church.

Quote:
Continuous revelation is the very lifeblood of the gospel of Jesus Christ.


It is a strange conclusion to a message that mentions nine prophets (ten if we include the author), lists the main things learned from them, and doesn't mention even a hint of revelation anywhere.

I think this article does a good job of illustrating the strange state of Mormonism--being a church that trumpets continuing revelation through its prophets, but doesn't have any specifics to mention.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I learned all this from my Mom...! Especially the shopping part!!


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:42 pm 
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fetchface wrote:
No, you wouldn't have.
Yes I would! The answer to it from that point of view is actually a lot simpler than you think. If by "revelation" you mean written revelation, the kind that says: "thus saith the Lord," the answer to it is that the Church has received plenty of such revelations, some of which have entered the public domain, and many more that haven't. I once found on the Internet some great revelations received by Wilford Woodruff, John Taylor, and others which are as good as anything found in the Doctrine and Covenants. They just haven't been canonized. That is one answer to that question. The second answer to it is that a revelation does not always have to be of the "written" kind. Church leaders can receive revelation by the quiet whispering of the Spirit in the discharge of their responsibilities which are not always "written". The quote given by Consig actually acknowledges that. The fact that he doesn't believe it is simply irrelevant.

Another question that I am sure could be asked at this point is, If the Church is capable of, and indeed has received such revelations during its history, why haven't they been canonized? The answer to that question will again depend on who is asking. If it is asked by an impertinent, cynical unbeliever like Consig, the answer to it is, It is none of his business! What the Church does with its revelations is the Church's business. Unbelievers have no say in that. But if it is asked by a genuine, believing, sincere Latter-day Saint, the answer to it is, firstly, at least one of them has been canonized. It is the vision of the redemption of the dead received by Joseph F. Smith. That alone should be sufficient to prove to the skeptic that the Church is still capable of receiving those kinds of revelations. As for the rest, they will be canonized when the Lord decides that they be canonized. He has given them to the Church, and he decides when they should be canonized.

A third kind of question that can legitimately be asked at this point is, If the Church has been capable of receiving such revelations throughout its history, why have some Church leaders made the kind of serious doctrinal mistakes that they have made in the past? To find the answer to that question, however, you have to read my book! :biggrin: That is why I have written it, to answer some of those kinds of questions.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:44 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
Apparently there are some questions that shouldn't be asked.
Oh, they certainly can be asked. But the answer given will depend on who is doing the asking.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:00 pm 
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fetchface wrote:
It's annoying to watch a church...that doesn't take itself seriously enough to spend the mental energy to think through how things are supposed to work.


And how should things work?

Thus saith Fetchface:

Fetchface 1:1-12

Go for it...

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:02 am 
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He also learned from Mark E. Peterson to move house when minorities moved into the area he was living. Does that come under “consideration for others”?
Interestingly, “consideration for others” was learned from David O McKay, the President of the Church who considered the Priesthood Ban and decided to keep it in place.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:27 pm 
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zerinus wrote:
zeezrom wrote:
The purpose of a prophet is to foretell the coming of Jesus and perhaps their job feels obsolete to them since Jesus already came? It's not their fault the thing they need to prophesy about already happened. Poor guys.
The purpose of a prophet is to tell people what God wants them to hear, and to do god’s work on earth.


Does God have nothing to say, then?


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Quote:
The purpose of a prophet is to tell people what God wants them to hear, and to do god’s work on earth.


Because everyone else can't hear God? Not what the Bible teaches. Prophets are a gift of the spirit. Smith made prophets into dictators, something they were never intended to be. And what do they tell us? Absolutely nothing. But they sure make a lot of money for the corporation.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:41 pm 
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lemuel wrote:

Does God have nothing to say, then?


And what should they say?

Thus saith lemuel:

lemuel 1:1-12

Go for it...

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:44 pm 
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It would probably be more interesting than Mental's Book of Buffoonery.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:47 pm 
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grindael wrote:
It would probably be more interesting than Mental's Book of Buffoonery.


Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time. Rather than leading us in an unproductive/uncivil direction, you might want to add substantively to the discussion?

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:55 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time. Rather than leading us in an unproductive/uncivil direction, you might want to add substantively to the discussion?


Of course it doesn't, not with you, the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:56 pm 
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grindael wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time. Rather than leading us in an unproductive/uncivil direction, you might want to add substantively to the discussion?


Of course it doesn't, not with you, the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.


Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:57 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.


I already did, and you did not, but chose to come and troll. You... the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:00 pm 
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grindael wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.


I already did, and you did not, but chose to come and troll. You... the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.


Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:02 pm 
Dragon
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mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.


Lather, rinse, repeat... You... the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:14 pm 
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grindael wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:

Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time.


Lather, rinse, repeat... You... the buffoon who doesn't know what the ____ he is talking about and can only troll MD over and over again until you get frustrated and skulk off.


You may have the last word.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:55 pm 
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This means your done? THANK GOD.

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"I will not in any way, shape, or form have anything to do with or have anything to say to [grindael] from here on out. Directly OR INDIRECTLY" ~MG, 10-25-17, 12:36PM The SAME DAY, an hour later... "I decided that I needed to also create a publicly posted thread, as he did..." FIRST indirect comment. So much for his "DMZ".


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:43 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
lemuel wrote:

Does God have nothing to say, then?


And what should they say?

Thus saith lemuel:

lemuel 1:1-12

Go for it...

Regards,
MG


Since you asked...I'm not the one claiming to be a prophet. But if you want an example of the kind of things that prophets might want to seek the mind of God on, President Hinckley mentioned a while back that when there is a difficult matter, they go to the Lord for revelation.

Quote:
Gordon B. Hinckley: Now we don’t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.


So let's start with the question of female ordination--I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm ok with whatever God wants. But it's a really big deal to a lot of people--people lose their faith over this. It's a vexatious thing.

Here's the core problem:

1. It would be very foolish to do it without a revelation.
2. The Q15 either don't have the ability, or they don't have the desire to get a revelation on this matter.

The best answer anyone gives me for this question is "How do you know the Q15 haven't gotten a revelation?" And maybe it's possible that they have revelations on this and all sorts of important matters, but they just aren't sharing it with the swine, but in Joseph's day, when an issue more trivial than this arose (e.g. tobacco juice on the floor), Joseph went to the Lord, and got a revelation, in prose (not just a yes or no feeling). Often the Lord would add additional information for good measure.

A month or so I had the missionaries over for dinner, and they read Amos 8 to me:

Quote:
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.


The famine has returned.

I would be cool with female ordination if that's what God wants. And if God said no, I would be cool with that too. But the core problem in the Church today is that we don't have revelation or prophets anymore. And we need them.


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 Post subject: Re: Prophets to Guide Us
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:05 pm 
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lemuel wrote:
But the core problem in the Church today is that we don't have revelation or prophets anymore. And we need them.

:eek: Yeah, they need one for sure. God has sent one I know of. Nobody cares. Why? You cannot be a true prophet and at the same time make people in arrogant condemnation FEEEEEL Good. People resent it all to heck, not making them feel good about themselves. A Catch 22.

So they take up with a Snuffer or two. La, la, la, de dah.

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