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 Post subject: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:44 am 
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https://ldsmag.com/why-the-arguments-of ... -familiar/

The LDS apologetic strategy is to simply claim New Atheism is the old, and adds nothing new, its not creative, and not convincing because the LDS scriptures already anticipated the arguments and gave us answers.

If that were the case, how then did New Atheism catch on with multiple millions of more people than there are Mormons worldwide in just the last decade?

O.K., so the atheists have no new ideas under the sun. But doesn't the assumption appear that because of this claim Mormonism is still true? That appears to me to be an unjustified assumption at best doesn't it?

The claim is the atheist arguments are just not that strong. But, once again, in current typical blase fashion the author refuses to actually engage in any of the atheist arguments, he simply labels them and imagines all is still well in Zion.

This appears to me to be the current strategy of dealing with doubt caused by the overwhelmingly powerful atheist arguments, which are never discussed, only labeled as "weak," "old," "typical," etc. Sure the arguments have been around a while, people didn't begin using their brains only from Aug 12, 1923 after all. Atheist arguments go way back to the ancient Greeks, but the assumption is that if they are old, then they are outdated and useless. This is false as I see it. The old arguments keep coming up because none of the religions have put them to rest, but they flee from them, and only give an impression that they are dealt with and refuted. It is, a rather unconvincing sort of convincing going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:12 am 
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Strawmen are the only kind of opponents ldsmag knows how to engage.

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:40 am 
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Theists' arguments are old, weak and useless. The notion of god is thousands and thousands of years old. Very old. Ergo, not a good notion. Weak? Oh yea, it relies on hearsay to the Nth degree. Not reliable at all. Useless? Absolutely. So what if there is a god? There have still been two hurricanes in the last two weeks. Very useless, this god of theirs, unless it is to inspire Holland to go down the wrong road (he's been going down the wrong road all his life) and to schedule Bednar months in advance of the Virginia shooting to go there at a time that will just be days after the shooting--not to give any comfort to the families of the victim but to 10%-payers in the vicinity. Old? check. Weak? check. Useless? check, check, check... .

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:48 am 
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The article writer is simply serialising the book he’s trying to sell.

https://www.amazon.com/There-God-Respon ... 1462120415

Quote:
We know the scriptures were given for us, but did you know that they specifically teach us how to combat the rampant atheism in our day? Addressing skepticism head-on, There is a God helps Latter-day Saints respond to atheist challenges and even reach out to rescue those whose faith has faltered.

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:45 pm 
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The author of the Meridian article, Hyrum Lewis, concludes his supposedly faith promoting article with the following.
Hyrum Lewis wrote:
The “New” religion found in the restored gospel describes our post-industrial age much better than does the “New” atheism.

An important difference between atheism in the early 20th Century and that of the early 21st Century is the vast accumulation of scientific evidence that continually shrinks the gaps that any god, and especially the anthropomorphic Elohim, might have left in which to function.

In the 21st Century, any adult in the west (or anywhere else, for that matter), who seriously argues for Biblical or Quranic creationism - and therefore against the physics of standard cosmology or the biology of evolution - is rightly seen as willfully ignorant, poorly educated, or severely lacking in judgement.

Considering our friend Hyrum's concluding statement quoted above - "New Atheism" does not 'describe' the post industrial age (and neither does Mormonism, for that matter).

As an author for a religious periodical, Bro. Lewis should know that atheism is the absence of belief in God - nothing more. For many of the so-called 'New Atheists', this lack of belief is bolstered by an understanding of, and appreciation for, a great deal of relevant science.

The 'New Atheist', therefore, has a worldview based on solid science and not bronze age myths and legends, as imagined by later generations, who eventually wrote down their versions of same.

For those whose worldview is based on the restored gospel, the situation is even worse. Piled on top of the standard Christian scriptures, they believe in a logically impossible anthropomorphic God. Elohim was "revealed" to their ancestors in tall tales told by a 19th century conman who was a self-admitted treasure hunter, glass looker, adulterer, polygamist, fraudster, and sexual predator.

To be accepted as 'members in good standing' of the church founded by Joseph Smith, these unfortunate individuals are forced to confess belief in ridiculous and obviously fraudulent "scriptures" generated by this conman, and to donate 10% of their income to a business and real estate holding company masquerading as a church.

In reality, the choice presented in the article seems to be between a worldview based on established science - and one based on poorly written pseudepigraphical (at best) scriptures, and the ever changing policies of an incestuous group of hopelessly arrogant and bigoted old men.

Not a very tough decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:58 am 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
https://ldsmag.com/why-the-arguments-of-new-atheism-may-sound-familiar/

The LDS apologetic strategy is to simply claim New Atheism is the old, and adds nothing new, its not creative, and not convincing because the LDS scriptures already anticipated the arguments and gave us answers.


If you correct for even a tiny bit of the author's bias, Korihor won his debate vs. Alma. Ending the story with Alma using his magical powers to silence Korihor and Korihor then admitting that he had been lying the whole time was a total dux ex machina. The Book of Mormon acknowledges some of the issues involved, but doesn't actually provide substantial answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Meridian Magazine and New Atheism
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Okay I took five minutes.

Hyrum Lewis wrote:
Today’s atheists add the prefix “new” to an old label in order to cash in on our modern society’s preoccupation with the “progressive” and “cutting edge,” but their arguments have been around for over a century


He could of hit wikipedia first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism

wiki wrote:
New Atheism is a term coined in 2006 by the journalist Gary Wolf to describe the positions promoted by some atheists of the twenty-first century...who advocate the view that superstition, religion and irrationalism should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument


Also, the main difference between atheists today and a hundred years ago is that atheism back then was heavily tied to philosophy where as today philosophy is kind of a dirty word and atheists make philosophical arguments that are supposedly observations of science. Atheism has probably declined a little.

HL wrote:
The Book of Mormon, published in 1830 and supposedly cooked up by an ignorant farm boy, foresaw the five most important arguments against religion


laughable as the Book of Mormon copies popular conceptions in retrospect. But assuming TBM readers, he establishes the top 5 atheist arguments by mere assumption. His attributions are strained. But anyway, evolution may be in the top five, the others are guesses, and the Book of Mormon doesn't include the Problem of Evil, which is #1.

HL wrote:
But in our twenty-first century “post-industrial” age, the most crucial component of reality is information—something that is decidedly non-material.


That's just stupid. And all his examples of it are stupid. And the concept of physicalism/materialism has evolved substantially in the last hundred years.

HL wrote:
In physics, quantum theory—developed primarily by Christians such as Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg—has shown that the atomic particles that make up all matter are themselves informational.


Stupid. Waves are physical.

HL wrote:
A spiritual creation precedes a physical one (Moses 3:5) and order presupposes an “orderer”—a mind that comprehends and creates the order upon which material reality is based.


Stupid. Spirits are physical, just ask Joseph Smith.

the irony is that we don't need the information age, idealism was invented long before Joseph smith and religion fully secure in the non-physical. Joseph smith in fact dismissed all of this and tried to reduce religion to materialism and humanism.


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