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 Post subject: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:21 pm 
First Presidency
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I raise my IPA to you Joseph Smith con-artist. For giving us a fake reality for many years; for giving us the racist book of Mormon with its many anachronisms and impossibilities (Shiz raising up after losing his head is my personal favorite); for giving us polygamy and polyandry just so you could seemingly get away with sleeping around (gotta hand it to your inventiveness); and finally for your ever increasing fantastical stories that would have reached the stars had you not been struck down at an early age: I raise my glass to you. May your memory forever be for evil you f$%#ing a$$ ho%!


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:56 pm 
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Indeed, predator Joe Smith loved being with as many women as he could, the younger the better. He was a molester and an abusive man.

Joseph Smith doing it with a 14 year old girl is something that should be shouted from the housetops bringing shame and embarrassment to the church as a whole. The church has idolized this man as if he was god's holy instrument when in fact he was a child molester and a liar. Joseph Smith and Jeff Warren are two peas in a pod. Molesters! They are manipulative molesting men who love to take advantage of others.

Joseph Smith + 14 year old girl = pervert

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:19 am 
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I raise my double shot of Captain Morgan's Coconut Rum to the man who continues to fill balloons with hot air and place them on the dart board for me to come by and and enjoy throwing darts at them.

We have a number of these balloons here on this dart board. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:35 am 
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Joe, for all you did, this Bud's for you!

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"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Indeed, predator Joe Smith loved being with as many women as he could, the younger the better. He was a molester and an abusive man.

Joseph Smith doing it with a 14 year old girl is something that should be shouted from the housetops bringing shame and embarrassment to the church as a whole. The church has idolized this man as if he was god's holy instrument when in fact he was a child molester and a liar. Joseph Smith and Jeff Warren are two peas in a pod. Molesters! They are manipulative molesting men who love to take advantage of others.

Joseph Smith + 14 year old girl = pervert


Oh for pete's sake. He also had numerous wives far older than he was.
Only two of his wives were under 16 (marriageable age, even if not the average age) and there is little to no evidence of any physical relationship with them.
You love to keep posting that claim, but there is no evidence to support it.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:44 pm 
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JLHPROF wrote:
Oh for pete's sake. He also had numerous wives far older than he was.
Only two of his wives were under 16...

So if one marries multiple wives, then the relevant comparison to marriageable age is to take the average of the wive's ages?!?! :lol:

Also, it's worth thinking about that you are using the phrase "Only two of his wives were under 16" in an attempt to redeem Joseph Smith's character. Let's try that with Warren Jeffs.... Nope. Just as creepy then as now.


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
JLHPROF wrote:
Oh for pete's sake. He also had numerous wives far older than he was.
Only two of his wives were under 16...

So if one marries multiple wives, then the relevant comparison to marriageable age is to take the average of the wive's ages?!?! :lol:

Also, it's worth thinking about that you are using the phrase "Only two of his wives were under 16" in an attempt to redeem Joseph Smith's character. Let's try that with Warren Jeffs.... Nope. Just as creepy then as now.


Really? You could at least try and be reasonable.
The point to Shulem's repeated accusations is that clearly that Joseph neither targeted nor showed any preference for underage girls.
And once again, there is no evidence that sex was involved either for Helen or Nancy, the only two outliers by age.
Applying a Warren Jeff's label to Joseph's practice is an unreasonable comparison.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:13 pm 
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JLHPROF wrote:

Really? You could at least try and be reasonable.
The point to Shulem's repeated accusations is that clearly that Joseph neither targeted nor showed any preference for underage girls.
And once again, there is no evidence that sex was involved either for Helen or Nancy, the only two outliers by age.
Applying a Warren Jeff's label to Joseph's practice is an unreasonable comparison.


Would you mind sourcing your unsubstantiated assertions? I'm under the impression there are something like a dozen sworn testimonies from his wives where they affirm sex occurred.

- Doc

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In the anointed we find a whole class of supposedly ‘thinking people’ who do remarkably little thinking about substance and a great deal of verbal expression. - Dr. Thomas Sowell, Harvard, Columbia, University of Chicago


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:17 pm 
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I utterly repudiate Joseph Smith's polygamy. Utterly.

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I utterly repudiate Joseph Smith's polygamy. Utterly.

Hear, hear!

I find the idea of a just and loving God who not only supported this but sent an angel to threaten Joseph with a deadly weapon to command it to be both utterly absurd and contemptible.

If God was behind it, God owes humanity an apology (especially those poor girls).

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:32 pm 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
I utterly repudiate Joseph Smith's polygamy. Utterly.


Yes, but, but, don't you think there is a slight difference between a 14 year old girl vs. a 24 year old girl? After all, we need to consider the creep factor and Joseph Smith was pretty creepy. The man lurked in dark corners and shadowy bedrooms. He lurked about in the back of barns too. No doubt he put fear and wonder into the hearts and minds of young ladies. No doubt he rattled poor Emma and even threatened her with death if she didn't comply with his wishes.

Yes, Joseph Smith is the founding Creep of Mormonism. He was the dark shadows in his temple -- the spider lurking in the midst of the web. Joseph Smith stood ready to pounce and sink his poison fangs into little girls who resisted his advances. His heart was black as tar. Mormonism grew out of his lewd and nasty behavior to produce the likes of Brigham Young and those who associated with their polygamous harems.

Today, Mormonism is a cancer among the human race. A disease. It is without a doubt the most embarrassing religion one has to admit belonging to. Telling people you're a Mormon means you support Joseph Smith's polygamy and that's utterly shameful. Polygamous defending Mormons are shameful and have no conscience because their consciences are seared with false testimony and self delusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
JLHPROF wrote:

Really? You could at least try and be reasonable.
The point to Shulem's repeated accusations is that clearly that Joseph neither targeted nor showed any preference for underage girls.
And once again, there is no evidence that sex was involved either for Helen or Nancy, the only two outliers by age.
Applying a Warren Jeff's label to Joseph's practice is an unreasonable comparison.


Would you mind sourcing your unsubstantiated assertions? I'm under the impression there are something like a dozen sworn testimonies from his wives where they affirm sex occurred.

- Doc


Yes, but none are from Helen or Nancy, the two wives under 16.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
The man lurked in dark corners and shadowy bedrooms. He lurked about in the back of barns too. No doubt he put fear and wonder into the hearts and minds of young ladies. No doubt he rattled poor Emma and even threatened her with death if she didn't comply with his wishes.

Yes, Joseph Smith is the founding Creep of Mormonism. He was the dark shadows in his temple -- the spider lurking in the midst of the web. Joseph Smith stood ready to pounce and sink his poison fangs into little girls who resisted his advances.


And I'm the one being asked to provide evidence?
Talk about twisting history.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:50 pm 
Dragon
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Quote:
And once again, there is no evidence that sex was involved either for Helen or Nancy, the only two outliers by age.


There is evidence. You just won't accept it. This is a totally false claim. You don't know what you are talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:06 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Quote:
And once again, there is no evidence that sex was involved either for Helen or Nancy, the only two outliers by age.


There is evidence. You just won't accept it. This is a totally false claim. You don't know what you are talking about.


Please provide it. I've only heard of one possible evidence.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:08 pm 
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JLHPROF wrote:
Yes, but none are from Helen or Nancy, the two wives under 16.


I don't see how you can maintain that Joseph Smith didn't have sex with the young girls. Why else did he get married to them? Also, I have to agree that Grindael has pretty good evidence that sex happened between ole joe and his teenage brides. Mormons are still good people even though their founder was a con-artist lech.

Come on and raise your glass to our favorite fraudster! You won't regret it.


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:14 pm 
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JLHPROF wrote:
Yes, but none are from Helen or Nancy, the two wives under 16.


Who CARES?? What's wrong with you? He creeped on Emily Partridge for a YEAR! She was 18 freaking years old, brother, when he asked her if she could "keep a secret"! What 18-YEAR-OLD has any ability whatsoever to understand anything about anything when it comes to dealing with marriage, a married man, his wife, a religious community, polygamy, ANYTHING? And while he was coming onto her he was nailing her SISTER!

I mean. Seriously. Can't you see this for what it is? It's really disgusting that you're so casual with predatory behavior. All you have to do is read these testimonies, and frankly most of them are faithful testimonies, to see how he was straight up a predator. There is NOTHING different from his behavior than how you see pederasts and sexual predators do in this day and age. It just boggles my mind that you make excuses for it.

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 pm 
Dragon
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Quote:
…for they [spiritual wives] are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.


Mormon SCRIPTURE. There is no other reason why they are "given" to any man. Even Helen Kimball KNEW THIS and said so:

Quote:
The principle was established by the Prophet Joseph Smith and ALL WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO IT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, HAVE DONE SO FOR THE PURPOSE OF RAISING A RIGHTEOUS SEED; and the object is that we may be restored back to that Eden from whence we fell. Some may have dragged it in the mire; but the principle remains pure and independent and only the wrong-doer has become degraded. (Why we Practice PLURAL MARRIAGE, pg. 7)


She claims that raising up seed (SEX) is the purpose of polygamy and that ALL who enter into it have done so FOR THAT PURPOSE. There is the evidence for sex in ALL OF SMITH'S "MARRIAGES". While we can't know for sure who did and did not have sex, you CANNOT eliminate this on a whim. This is how Helen understood Smith's Spiritual Wife System. It WAS all about having sex and children. That was essential to God's "plan". You can quibble all you want that there is no evidence, but there is. And there is enough evidence that Joseph had sex with his young wives, because THEY SAID SO.

You are simply excluding some, because you feel like it. Well, that's evidence of nothing.

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"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:27 pm 
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grindael wrote:
Quote:
…for they [spiritual wives] are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.


Mormon SCRIPTURE. There is no other reason why they are "given" to any man. Even Helen Kimball KNEW THIS and said so:

Quote:
The principle was established by the Prophet Joseph Smith and ALL WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO IT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, HAVE DONE SO FOR THE PURPOSE OF RAISING A RIGHTEOUS SEED; and the object is that we may be restored back to that Eden from whence we fell. Some may have dragged it in the mire; but the principle remains pure and independent and only the wrong-doer has become degraded. (Why we Practice PLURAL MARRIAGE, pg. 7)


She claims that raising up seed (SEX) is the purpose of polygamy and that ALL who enter into it have done so FOR THAT PURPOSE. There is the evidence for sex in ALL OF SMITH'S "MARRIAGES". While we can't know for sure who did and did not have sex, you CANNOT eliminate this on a whim. This is how Helen understood Smith's Spiritual Wife System. It WAS all about having sex and children. That was essential to God's "plan". You can quibble all you want that there is no evidence, but there is. And there is enough evidence that Joseph had sex with his young wives, because THEY SAID SO.

You are simply excluding some, because you feel like it. Well, that evidence of nothing.


No, you are arguing the principle. I agree with you.
But the principle is no guarantee of practice.

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Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:35 pm 
Dragon
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And yes, the other evidence is what Catherine Lewis (a completely credible witness who lived with the Kimballs, and who Heber Kimball pursued as a spiritual wife), heard Helen say to her mother:

Quote:
The Twelve took Joseph’s wives after his death. Kimball and Young took most of them; the daughter of Kimball was one of Joseph’s wives. I heard her say to her mother, “I will never be sealed to my Father, (meaning as a wife) as I would never have been sealed (married) to Joseph, had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it. I say again, I will never be sealed to my Father; no, I will sooner be damned and go to hell, if I must. Neither will I be sealed to Brigham Young.” The Apostles said they only took Joseph’s wives to raise up children, carry them through to the next world, there deliver them up to him, by so doing they should gain his approbation, &c


Everything she says here can be verified. (I've done so). The twelve did take Joseph's wives. And as to her being sealed to her father, that is not out of the question since Lorenzo Snow, Brigham Young and others claimed that it didn't matter, that we were all "brothers and sisters" and that it was simply superstition to believe there would be problems with brother/sister (incestuous) marriages. Lorenzo claimed that it would someday be practiced in the church. Lewis left the Church over polygamy. She was friends with Augusta Cobb, who was a spiritual wife of Brigham Young. She testified in court that Young and Cobb committed adultery. Brigham Young once warned Cobb not to be alone with Joseph Smith as she might be sexually "overcome" by him. And she was older than Smith. Emma was older than Smith and she was pregnant when she died. Age has nothing to do with this. It is silly to claim that Eliza Snow was a "spinster" and Smith didn't have sex with her. She was the same age as Emma Smith who Smith was having sex with till the last year of his life. This is all Mormon Apologist TRIPE. It was Smith's signature line that the salvation of the ENTIRE FAMILY depended on the girls marrying him. Lewis gets EVERYTHING RIGHT. Apologists want to discredit her because she left the church OVER POLYGAMY. She loved Joseph Smith, donated to the Temple, wrote a long poem about how great he was when he died, etc. She went to Nauvoo. She did everything they asked except fall into the trap of Spiritual Marriage.

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"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


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 Post subject: Re: Here's to Joseph Smith Con-Artist
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:36 pm 
Dragon
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The PRINCIPLE is the guarantee of practice. That is why Helen's ____ book is titled WHY WE PRACTICE PLURAL MARRIAGE.

These kinds of stupid comments are apologist ____.

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"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


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