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 Post subject: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:04 am 
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I was involved in hurricane relief/cleanup this past weekend. A lot of good people trying to engage in genuine service, which is awesome. But also a lot of promotion of the church, which really bugs me.

What I'd like to focus on specially, is the church being leveraged as a kind of volunteer-driven flood insurance program for well-to-do members. A majority of the "help" is being directed towards people who don't actually "need" help. Not that those people shouldn't be helped too. But yes, I do think relief resources should be prioritized according to legitimate need. There are people who were living in literal squalor even before the storm hit, and their homes were entirely destroyed. Instead of helping them we're sending volunteers out to members houses in swanky neighborhoods so they don't have to spend money on contractors. Those people have flood insurance and will also get FEMA money... which they'll end up getting to pocket because instead of spending it on hiring labor they got it for free from volunteers. Just sayin'.

And it also really bugged the hell out of me when after the days work I saw "leaders" tallying up man hours so they could create a statistical report to send back to Salt Lake so they can brag how much the church "donated" in the press. Be on the lookout, that will be coming. They made a big deal about tallying numbers like this.

Am I wrong?

I think it's great that the church is family and we help each other out. So I'm not sure what the right answer is. This is a situation though where I feel like the church should be helping people outside the church before it helps people in the church. The opposite is happening. It very much feels like the church is helping people in the church as a kind of perk of membership. Mormons help Mormons, not the stinky infidels living in the ghetto. But in the press release it will appear like the opposite. And that's not the whole story, I don't want to paint with a broad brush. There are church members all over engaged in all manner of aid. But it is definitely a thing in certain areas. And it bugs the heck out of me that this is what Deseret reports on too. They show stories with everybody in their yellow shirts as they visit members houses.


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:36 am 
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Reminds me a little bit about when I volunteered in the Elder's Quorum Moving Company and I helped a guy with a 5000 square foot house move to a 3000 square foot rental house so that he could rent out his 5000 square foot house and bring in some additional income. If he had had to pay a moving company, that may have wiped out a couple months' rent profits.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:53 pm 
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what is a perk


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
what is a perk

It's a benefit. Think of it as receiving unlimited indulgences following a second anointing. Not something for the masses, but only for decorated combat officers in the Heaven War.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Sidenote: This might sound strange coming from an active, believing member who supports the Church, but the JustServe thing bothers me. It's hard to use and implement, and it emerges through experience with it that the purpose of it is to tally and tout man hours. It is actually the opposite of "just serving" (which would be "off the books." Verily I say, they have their reward). The emphasis is not doing service projects that aren't booked and recorded through JustServe.

I am also not a fan of T-Shirts trumpeting the big service effort. Not sure if that's the case with Harvey, but "Mormon Helping Hands" has been a thing in the past

----

As far as the OP, there is a lot of benefit to having access to the network of members. I often wonder what people do when they move to a new area and know nobody, and have no network at all? I'm a school teacher, but during the summer I do construction and odd jobs through a temp agency. I often am hired to help people move --- elderly or single people --- and the job is h-u-g-e, and I have my sons come and help for free, just so it can be finished at a reasonable time and not cost the person an arm and a leg. They are dumbfounded that I would do that, but we as a ward often move non-members in, and without this, they would be hard-pressed to get done what needs to be done (especially very heavy or awkward items).

I got a call Sunday night from a couple in Delaware. Their daughter is antagonistic towards the Church, and she and her non-member husband and their special needs son moved to our area. They know no one and are quite isolated. They need help with some things, but don't want to ask the Church for help (truth be told, they don't want to be found). She told her mother that she didn't want to be beholden to the Church for anything. I haven't called her yet, and maybe she'll tell me to go jump in a lake, but just the existence and availability of the Church network is significant.


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:12 pm 
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The help network of the LDS church is truly admirable. The problem is that it has some dark sides to it.

It is less than admirable when someone who doesn't need it uses it to fatten their wallet. It was also less than admirable when we ignore the human cost on the other side of that impressive network.

When I was EQP, there was such a constant deluge of "service opportunities" (me being told to organize some heroic show of service with absolutely no advance notice) that I frequently pondered that I would happily welcome death because it would be restful. Let that sink in for a minute. That's the kind of lengths these volunteers are pushing themselves to.

I'm still mystified as to how I ended up in that position (i.e. how the leaders thought that was a good idea to give me that calling) with four kids under 4 years old at home, along with the most demanding families to home teach, constantly calling with help requests. That was truly a dark time in my life that held very little joy/happiness. But I see it repeating itself. The church doesn't care. In the Stake Conference where our stake president was called, his wife had to hand him the baby for the obligatory testimony bearing. He paced around, bouncing the baby while she bore her testimony that this calling came from God.

When God tells you to do something, you do it. Even if it sucks all the joy out of life and makes you feel ready for death. The church may pay lip service to putting your family first, but just try telling your bishop that you can't get people to his latest pet project and watch him exercise his veto power over your family. That's my experience anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:00 pm 
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The bright yellow"Mormons helping...." T-shirts seem kind of tacky. Why not give God the glory, and not the church?


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:57 pm 
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I think this is the area President Uchtdorf visited while wearing one of those yellow t-shirts:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wimbled ... 80&bih=617

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:02 am 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
what is a perk

Says the well heeled lawyer for many clients including LDS Inc.

I am certain bot would be a home cleaned up by the yellow Mormon helping hands crew.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:05 am 
the very elect
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Water Dog wrote:
Am I wrong?

Yes, by participating with the Mormons, you are.

Why not go and work with those who you feel deserve your time, efforts, and empathy?

Perhaps you too are attempting to keep up appearances? You and LDS Inc are two peas in a pod.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:43 am 
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moinmoin wrote:
I often wonder what people do when they move to a new area and know nobody, and have no network at all?

Umm, they lift and move the boxes themselves . . . ?

fetchface wrote:
I'm still mystified as to how I ended up in that position . . . with four kids under 4 years old at home, . . .

??? Wow, you must REALLY enjoy changing diapers!

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:52 am 
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moinmoin wrote:
Sidenote: This might sound strange coming from an active, believing member who supports the Church, but the JustServe thing bothers me. It's hard to use and implement, and it emerges through experience with it that the purpose of it is to tally and tout man hours. It is actually the opposite of "just serving" (which would be "off the books." Verily I say, they have their reward). The emphasis is not doing service projects that aren't booked and recorded through JustServe.

I am also not a fan of T-Shirts trumpeting the big service effort. Not sure if that's the case with Harvey, but "Mormon Helping Hands" has been a thing in the past

Yes, it’s ‘a thing’ with Harvey...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... arvey.html


Quote:
As far as the OP, there is a lot of benefit to having access to the network of members. I often wonder what people do when they move to a new area and know nobody, and have no network at all?

Neighbours.
The fact that you wonder what they do seems to indicate that you haven’t helped any non members who have moved into your area, or do you think it’s only Mormons who help people?

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Last edited by I have a question on Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:13 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
??? Wow, you must REALLY enjoy changing diapers!

I remember having hands that were cracked and bleeding from so many post-diaper-change washes.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:18 am 
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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
You and LDS Inc are two peas in a pod.

Tell me how you really feel, lol. FTR, no, I'm not keeping up any appearances.


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:37 am 
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Do you by chance have any pics to share? It might be inspiring to see board contributors doing charity work.

- doc

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:44 am 
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moinmoin wrote:
I am also not a fan of T-Shirts trumpeting the big service effort. Not sure if that's the case with Harvey, but "Mormon Helping Hands" has been a thing in the past

Oh, it's definitely a thing. To varying degrees a lot of people don't like it though.

moinmoin wrote:
As far as the OP, there is a lot of benefit to having access to the network of members.

Which I agree with, so I'm somewhat torn. I don't want to be overly critical. This isn't your normal situation either but a bonafide disaster. There are many people who need no joke life and death kind of help. Helping them will have a huge impact on their lives long-term. Instead though, we're sending people to help maintain high comfort levels? It just isn't appropriate. Something really immature about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:52 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Do you by chance have any pics to share? It might be inspiring to see board contributors doing charity work.

- doc

Inspiring? Not sure about that, but I'll ponder this request. I can probably post some pics at some point.


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:33 am 
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fetchface wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
??? Wow, you must REALLY enjoy changing diapers!

I remember having hands that were cracked and bleeding from so many post-diaper-change washes.

Holy Hell.

Are you aware that pretty much every convenience- and grocery store sells certain prophylactic devices that are extremely effective at preventing having four children under age 4?

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:37 am 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Holy Hell.

Are you aware that pretty much every convenience- and grocery store sells certain prophylactic devices that are extremely effective at preventing having four children under age 4?

Sure, and I was also aware of that back then. I also learned from experience that those devices are not 100% effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:54 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Yes, it’s ‘a thing’ with Harvey...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... arvey.html


Not a fan of this.

Quote:
The fact that you wonder what they do seems to indicate that you haven’t helped any non members who have moved into your area, or do you think it’s only Mormons who help people?


I help non-members, but when I do, it seems that they would have been up a creek without the help. At least, judging from their response.

I've even been called by the hospital to help a homebound elderly woman (hip replacement) facing HOA sanctions for weeds. My son and I went over after school and took care of them (three-feet high in the front yard). The home nurse reported the issue, and someone looked up the bishop of record for that area. It wasn't logged in JustServe, though, so the Church didn't get credit for it . . . :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Perks of Church Membership vs. Flood Insurance
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:36 am 
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fetchface wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
Holy Hell.

Are you aware that pretty much every convenience- and grocery store sells certain prophylactic devices that are extremely effective at preventing having four children under age 4?

Sure, and I was also aware of that back then. I also learned from experience that those devices are not 100% effective.


I thought about cracking a joke about this exchange, but decided against it. You know why? Because you've been to Hell and back my friend. Wiping poop from every crack and crevice is a thankless job and you have paid your penance ten times over. SNIP YOUR DEFERENS MAN.

- Doc

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