It is currently Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:15 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 154 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:23 pm 
Nursery

Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:34 am
Posts: 11
consiglieri wrote:

I am satisfied with just doing the uncovering. :cool:


I loved the uncovering in this episode, the juxtaposition of the ideal with the current lived experience. However, I'd also say that Joseph Smith himself descended down the same rabbit hold the church has, covering up his treasure digging and use of seer stones in his official history, among many other revisions to the early church narrative. As far as discouraging anti-mormon reading, Joseph Smith destroyed the expositor on the same grounds, while knowing full well it was the truth. My point is that these activities came in reactions to similar impetus that the LDS church has faced. Essentially, I think Joseph Smith isn't falling short of his ideal, but redefining when to live the ideal and when the idea is no longer ideal because it appears to be non-functional. The church came to the non-functional conclusion on allowing diversity of belief in many more situations simply because it was faced with a more diverse set of problems. That being said, Joseph Smith did exemplify the search for new truth, something that certainly isn't exemplified by church leadership today.

There is also a certain timeliness to this episode, as the church has recently listed a bunch of apologetic resources on the website. I think it's interesting that things may have become dire enough that the church has finally pointed members to those sources in an official capacity. It always seemed like in the past that the church, in it's ultra correlated mode, couldn't even aknowledge the apologetic material as that somehow crossed some kind of line.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:53 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:43 pm
Posts: 11560
sock puppet wrote:
Viriatu wrote:
Discounting Joseph on account of the way he lived polygamy is like discounting Elisha for sending the bear to eat the children who mocked him. Did it make Elisha not a prophet when he did that? No. But it made him an a-hole.
Themis wrote:
It makes him much more then just an a-hole. It makes him a murderer of children. Joseph's practice of polygamy is just good evidence he is probably not a real prophet, but doing it for sexual access to women, including young girls. You can then look to see if there is more evidence of Joseph doing things for his own benefit.
Viriatu wrote:
I'm perfectly open to the idea that Joseph Smith abused his authority and fell from grace. But I don't believe he was never a prophet. So the question is, were the Keys conferred so that they're still on earth? I think the answer is yes. Just my opinion.

keys? what a token-esque concept. reminds me of grade school when we'd get tokens for milk. seems a little odd that an omniscient, omnipotent would work in such un-mysterious ways, ways of mortals. if god wants a human to have something, why would god need to only provide it through another mortal with keys?


I noticed he doesn't seem to want to address these issues. Not surprising.

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:14 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5590
consiglieri wrote:
Radio Free Mormon has a new podcast up dealing with the definition of True Believing Mormon and how that term may be defined differently by church leaders today than Joseph Smith would have defined it.

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/ ... ng-mormon/

I hope you like it!

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I'm not a podcast person--is there any chance you make transcripts? I would really love to read a few.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:40 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:02 pm
Posts: 5772
consiglieri wrote:
No, I honestly don't see a lot of hope of changing things. Or maybe the changes are so incremental it is hard for me to discern them, like watching the hour hand of a clock.

The church has spent so much time covering things up, I think it only right for me to do my part in uncovering them, insofar as I am able.

What others do with that information is up to them.

I am satisfied with just doing the uncovering. :cool:



An I love your uncovering! Sometimes I sense a deeper desire in you. Perhaps I'm just projecting my own desires that oscillate and I'm questioning myself outloud.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:42 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:02 pm
Posts: 5772
Lemmie wrote:
I'm not a podcast person--is there any chance you make transcripts? I would really love to read a few.


You really should make an exception, for all of his existing pod-casts.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:58 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 5130
delete

_________________
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:00 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 5130
RockSlider wrote:
An I love your uncovering! Sometimes I sense a deeper desire in you.


I must be an exhibitionist at heart.

Image

_________________
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:42 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5590
RockSlider wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
I'm not a podcast person--is there any chance you make transcripts? I would really love to read a few.


You really should make an exception, for all of his existing pod-casts.

I'm planning to, I just thought I would give it one shot first of all. I am REALLY not a happy pod-cast listener, but sometimes the torture is worth it. :cool:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:28 pm 
God

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:47 pm
Posts: 5130
Image

_________________
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:35 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:25 pm
Posts: 5590
consiglieri wrote:
Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:
ok, ok already!! I will do my best. You better be worth it. :cool:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:43 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 6538
Location: Palm Tree Paradise (minus a few palm trees)
Benjamin Seeker wrote:
consiglieri wrote:

I am satisfied with just doing the uncovering. :cool:


I loved the uncovering in this episode, the juxtaposition of the ideal with the current lived experience. However, I'd also say that Joseph Smith himself descended down the same rabbit hold the church has, covering up his treasure digging and use of seer stones in his official history, among many other revisions to the early church narrative. As far as discouraging anti-mormon reading, Joseph Smith destroyed the expositor on the same grounds, while knowing full well it was the truth. My point is that these activities came in reactions to similar impetus that the LDS church has faced. Essentially, I think Joseph Smith isn't falling short of his ideal, but redefining when to live the ideal and when the idea is no longer ideal because it appears to be non-functional. The church came to the non-functional conclusion on allowing diversity of belief in many more situations simply because it was faced with a more diverse set of problems. That being said, Joseph Smith did exemplify the search for new truth, something that certainly isn't exemplified by church leadership today.

There is also a certain timeliness to this episode, as the church has recently listed a bunch of apologetic resources on the website. I think it's interesting that things may have become dire enough that the church has finally pointed members to those sources in an official capacity. It always seemed like in the past that the church, in it's ultra correlated mode, couldn't even aknowledge the apologetic material as that somehow crossed some kind of line.

Great post, Mr. (or Brother) Seeker.

Insightful and well written.

Thanks.

_________________
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:02 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
What an idiot. He writes that this,

Quote:
and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest


Is still being preached as a mystery. It wasn't. It WAS a mystery before Jesus came (his incarnation and death). That is why he says quite PLAINLY: "BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST".

What an idiot.

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:06 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
The concept of "keys" was an ad hoc as you go concept from Smith that kept evolving. Therefore, it makes little sense. It was all Joseph wanting to consolidate his power to himself. Transparent and shallow. Like Joseph claiming that Elijah was John the Baptist on the Mount of Transfiguration and then reversing himself. Like claiming that Elijah had to come and restore keys he clearly gave to Jesus and his apostles. But when they supposedly came, they didn't have them, Elijah did. Like Joseph preaching that Elijah was the last prophet to have the sealing keys and had to "restore" them in the NAUVOO Temple when he said Peter had them. Silly, silly stuff.

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:34 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 6089
sock puppet wrote:
...if god wants a human to have something, why would god need to only provide it through another mortal with keys?


Because it works pretty well to do it that way?

At least it has so far. Think of Snuffer. Think of the Godbeites. Think of the True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days. And many others.

If they all have the same authorization/authority of God...then why are they all different and/or acting in opposition to each other?

Keys represent sole ownership of what the keys belong to. My house, my keys. My car, my keys. My office, my keys. If there is a Kingdom of God on the earth, doesn't it make sense that there would be 'keys to the kingdom'? If there was an original restoration of Christ's kingdom, there can't be many kingdoms that all make the same claim...well, there can be, but only one can have the right entry door accessed by the right keys.

That's the way I see it anyway.

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:42 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
Quote:
If there was an original restoration of Christ's kingdom


There was no need for one. That is why Christ gave them to PETER, because Jesus built his church on that ROCK and said the gates of hell would NEVER prevail against it.

No need for Smith and his ad hocery.

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:55 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 6089
grindael wrote:
Quote:
If there was an original restoration of Christ's kingdom


There was no need for one. That is why Christ gave them to PETER, because Jesus built his church on that ROCK and said the gates of hell would NEVER prevail against it.


You are a Catholic of some stripe?

If so, I finally know a wee little bit about you as a person, besides the fact that I think you look a bit like Gandalf. :wink:

If you are a Catholic, you are Christian?

Wow.

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:56 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
mentalgymnast wrote:


You are a Catholic of some stripe?

If so, I finally know a wee little bit about you as a person, besides the fact that I think you look a bit like Gandalf. :wink:

If you are a Catholic, you are Christian?

Wow.


Wrong. You can't get ANYTHING right. :lol:

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:58 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 6089
grindael wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:


You are a Catholic of some stripe?

If so, I finally know a wee little bit about you as a person, besides the fact that I think you look a bit like Gandalf. :wink:

If you are a Catholic, you are Christian?

Wow.


Wrong. You can't get ANYTHING right. :lol:


You had me going when you said:
Quote:
There was no need for one. That is why Christ gave them to PETER, because Jesus built his church on that ROCK and said the gates of hell would NEVER prevail against it.


I thought may be you really believed this.

So you're not a Catholic.

Not a Christian?

Gandalf?

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:00 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
mentalgymnast wrote:
?


None of the above. Are you Gollum?

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:04 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 6089
grindael wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
?


None of the above.


So when you say:
Quote:
There was no need for one. That is why Christ gave them to PETER, because Jesus built his church on that ROCK and said the gates of hell would NEVER prevail against it.


You don't actually believe it?

Regards,
MG

_________________
Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: True Believing Mormon
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:05 pm 
Dragon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 5081
Location: The Land of Lorn
mentalgymnast wrote:

You don't actually believe it?


Why don't you tell me? You can read everyone else's mind. Gollum! Gollum!

_________________
"I have the truth, and am at the defiance of the world to contradict me if they can." ~Joseph Smith
"The Sots combine with pious care a monkey to enshrine." ~ Mormonism Unvailed, 1834.
I've got things/stuff/jobs to do and when I'm done I may/may not choose/decide to respond/reply/post/comment again. Or not. But maybe? ~Jersey Girl


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 154 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Craig Paxton, cwald, Doctor CamNC4Me, Doctor Steuss, DrW, Fence Sitter, kairos, Mittens, moinmoin, Stem, Yahoo [Bot] and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group