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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:27 pm 
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I do sympathize with the rejection of smug self-congratulations for figuring out Mormonism is not true. It takes a lot more brains and dedication to keep believing preposterous things.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Yahoo Bot
You and the impenetrable backyard professor really have it wired don't you? Those Mormons, such idiots to believe in miracles and things of the spirit. Such morons, simpletons and rubes, you say. We're all so smug here, aren't we? So much more intelligent and gifted than those stupid Mormons, who for some reason seem to appear to be happier folks that the rest of us here.


Yeah it does come across this way at times, so I can see why you make this point. Smug that I figured out that I hadn't figured it all out and was duped..... yes, I rejoice, and it is that rejoicing that comes across as smug. I shall have to watch that as I can. I already said Dan Peterson, and I would add many others, are NOT stupid, but in fact, seriously intelligent. But that intelligence does NOT immunize them from accepting faulty logic and incorrect premises based on worthless faith. The evidence is quite clear on that. It is NOT stupid people. It is accepting STUPID ARGUMENTS and logic that I am finding fault with, because, being above average intelligence, they ought to be able to see it. But being inbred in it for their entire lifetimes as I was is a difficult thing to overcome. That is my point. I am not disparaging people, I am disagreeing with a system they are in that has all the signs of being a brainwash.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:07 pm 
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FWIW I'm sorry that it's Dan Peterson again, too. But I get it.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
FWIW I'm sorry that it's Dan Peterson again, too. But I get it.

The reason he is a target is because he apparently insists to himself to keep putting out silliness like this.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I do sympathize with the rejection of smug self-congratulations for figuring out Mormonism is not true. It takes a lot more brains and dedication to keep believing preposterous things.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I love you to death Kish, but what bug is up your ass this month? You're saying it takes more brains to mis-use your brains!? And you admire that ability to believe nonsense??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why is it on the ex-Mormon or atheist to be a paragon of virtuous behavior? Mormonism is the system that makes bold and wonderful claims for itself, for its believers, and for the world at large. It seems to me that no matter how many examples of bad Mormonism and bad Mormons the believers will just no-true-Scotsman it and move on, but boy oh boy do they expect Mormon-like behavior from those who don't subscribe to their belief system any more. As if that's any indicator that unbelief is problematic...

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I love you to death Kish, but what bug is up your ass this month? You're saying it takes more brains to mis-use your brains!? And you admire that ability to believe nonsense??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Lemmie, I am really surprised! I mean, I totally sympathize with your admirable trust in reason, but there is a difference between reason and IQ. Right? We should first establish that we agree on that point.

Just because a person has a high IQ does not mean they will necessarily have the same tools of logic, the same training, or the same priorities and beliefs as you and I. I would say that the ability not only to believe, but also to defend skillfully a preposterous opinion can be evidence of great intelligence and rhetorical skill. I would not be so arrogant as to call such a person stupid.

Likewise, I don't think it takes genius to discover the falsity of preposterous beliefs. I find it tiresome when recently disbelieving ex-Mormons are haughtily dismissive of believers and deeply convinced of their own great intelligence. The process of changing beliefs is far too complicated to come to such a simplistic conclusion. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the person who enthusiastically believes in their own great intelligence because they discovered the falsity of ridiculous ideas is more likely to be mediocre than highly intelligent.

"A Reminiscence of Samuel Johnson," by H. P. Lovecraft wrote:
When, to agree with him, I said I was distrustful of the authenticity of Ossian's poems, Mr. Johnson said, "That sir, does not do your understanding particular credit. For what all the town is sensible of is no great discovery for a grub-street critic to make. You might as well say you have a strong suspicion that Milton wrote Paradise Lost."


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I love you to death Kish, but what bug is up your ass this month? You're saying it takes more brains to [mis-use your brains!? And you admire that ability to believe nonsense??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kishkumen wrote:
Lemmie, I am really surprised! I mean, I totally sympathize with your admirable trust in reason, but there is a difference between reason and IQ. Right? We should first establish that we agree on that point.

Just because a person has a high IQ does not mean they will necessarily have the same tools of logic, the same training, or the same priorities and beliefs as you and I. I would say that the ability not only to believe, but also to defend skillfully a preposterous opinion can be evidence of great intelligence and rhetorical skill. I would not be so arrogant as to call such a person stupid.

Likewise, I don't think it takes genius to discover the falsity of preposterous beliefs. I find it tiresome when recently disbelieving ex-Mormons are haughtily dismissive of believers and deeply convinced of their own great intelligence. The process of changing beliefs is far too complicated to come to such a simplistic conclusion. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the person who enthusiastically believes in their own great intelligence because they discovered the falsity of ridiculous ideas is more likely to be mediocre than highly intelligent.

"A Reminiscence of Samuel Johnson," by H. P. Lovecraft wrote:
When, to agree with him, I said I was distrustful of the authenticity of Ossian's poems, Mr. Johnson said, "That sir, does not do your understanding particular credit. For what all the town is sensible of is no great discovery for a grub-street critic to make. You might as well say you have a strong suspicion that Milton wrote Paradise Lost."

:lol: I willingly admit that I cannot disagree with any of that, sort of a Dunning-Kruger effect for the recently religiously disaffiliated, no?

Lovely quote at the end, thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I do sympathize with the rejection of smug self-congratulations for figuring out Mormonism is not true. It takes a lot more brains and dedication to keep believing preposterous things.


I think I'm in agreement with you. As long as we're defining preposterous as being:

Quote:
completely contrary to nature, reason, or common sense


Indeed, it takes a good deal of long term thinking/investigation and continued activity/dedication (with a dash of humility...) to stay in the church for some folks. I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again, my pet peeve is those that don't give adequate time/effort to investigating the issues before "smugly congratulating" themselves for figuring things out so fast and then just walk away without much further thought.

Of course, there's no way to know who is who. Whether this person or that has 'paid the price', so to speak, in making the determinations that they do. Especially on boards such as this where you really don't know people except for what they write.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:34 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Indeed, it takes a good deal of long term thinking/investigation and continued activity/dedication (with a dash of humility...) to stay in the church for some folks.

For others the threat of social shunning works.

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I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again, my pet peeve is those that don't give adequate time/effort to investigating the issues before "smugly congratulating" themselves for figuring things out so fast and then just walk away without much further thought.

Is the reverse also a pet peeve of yours? If not, why not?

Quote:
Of course, there's no way to know who is who.

If there’s no way of identifying those that don't give adequate time/effort to investigating the issues before "smugly congratulating" themselves for figuring things out so fast and then just walk away without much further thought how can it be a pet peeve of yours?

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Whether this person or that has 'paid the price', so to speak, in making the determinations that they do.

Why do you get to stipulate the price that they must pay?

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Especially on boards such as this where you really don't know people except for what they write.
Regards,
MG

You would do well to become self aware on this point. :wink:
As would we all.
We only know you by what you write. :smile:
And visa versa.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:03 am 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
But that intelligence does NOT immunize them from accepting faulty logic and incorrect premises based on worthless faith. The evidence is quite clear on that. It is NOT stupid people. It is accepting STUPID ARGUMENTS and logic that I am finding fault with, because, being above average intelligence, they ought to be able to see it.


Can't stop guffawing when a poster uses CAPS for emphasis, claims the evidence is "quite clear" on anything, and speaks of brainwashing.

The church is composed of millions of people. They have the freedom of will. To believe or not; but to throw turds on top of the synagogue as you do is quite a different matter.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
But that intelligence does NOT immunize them from accepting faulty logic and incorrect premises based on worthless faith. The evidence is quite clear on that. It is NOT stupid people. It is accepting STUPID ARGUMENTS and logic that I am finding fault with, because, being above average intelligence, they ought to be able to see it.

Can't stop guffawing when a poster uses CAPS for emphasis, claims the evidence is "quite clear" on anything, and speaks of brainwashing. I have nothing substantial to respond with.

There, I fixed it for you.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Yahoo Bot wrote:
... but to throw turds on top of the synagogue as you do is quite a different matter.

Lol. ____ ing Yahoo Bot, folks. This guy has been on FIRE lately. Throwing turds on top of synagogues... Good stuff...

- Doc

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Sorry, but it's Dan Peterson again....
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:26 am 
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SuperDell wrote:
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".


Absence of evidence means nothing to support the claim.

Sure, it's not evidence of absence, but why are you asking me to stake my future on something you cannot support with evidence?

What is your answer to this question, O Apologist?


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