Why was Joseph Smith duped by Kinderhook Plates?

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_grindael
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Re: Why was Joseph Smith duped by Kinderhook Plates?

Post by _grindael »

Has anyone actually looked at an ancient Greek Psalter? Many of them were parallel editions with other languages... But still, the account by Richards later was that Joseph just walked away from it and didn't say anything because Caswell was too fussy about the book. If Joseph knew it was Greek and said so, why didn't Richards mention this? Why not say, yeah, Joseph saw the book and it was Greek. But he didn't. Here is what Richards said, (from MormonThink)

The following excerpt was taken from Link is here. for the Times and Seasons Number 23: October 15, 1843 (pages 352-367):

REWARD OF MERIT.

It will be recollected by some, that a Mr. Caswell, professing to be an Episcopal minister, came to this city some twelve or eighteen months ago. He had with him an old manuscript, professing to be ignorant of its contents, and came to Joseph Smith, as he said, for the purpose of having it translated. Mr. Smith had a little conversation with him and treated him with civility, but as the gentleman seemed very much afraid of his document, he declined having any thing to do with it.

The Rev. gentleman afterward published a book, informing the inhabitants of the earth, that he had been to Nauvoo, and had seen the prophet-had conversed with the Mormons, and had heard a Mr. Kilbourne, a very conspicuous character in our neighborhood, (and who, according to Mr. Caswell's account, had been robbed of more than half the inhabitants of Iowa, possessed by the Mormons,) relate many wonderful stories;-after telling all the tales that he had heard, went to making others in regular Episcopal order out of whole cloth, and published his misshapen batch to the world, as a 'History of Mormonism' Thus as a reward of merit for publishing detraction and falsehoods already concocted, and adding a very splendid edition of his own, he has proven himself worthy of being exalted to the honor of bearing the sacerdotal robes, and of being raised to the very high and dignified office of curate (!!!!) in the English church. He has truly gained himself unfading laurels, and by continuing in well doing, and assisting some of the Rev. blackguards, whom the church of England have employed in England to abuse the Mormons, he may perhaps gain further honors. The following we clip from the Chicago Democrat:

"The Rev. Mr. Caswell, author of the 'History of the Mormons' late of the American Episcopal Church, has been admitted to the privileges of the English Church, under the provisions of a special act of parliament. He has also been appointed to a curacy.'


And Caswell recounted this, which is interesting,

He asked me if I had any idea of its meaning. I replied, that I believed it to be a Greek Psalter; but that I should like to hear his opinion. "No he said; "it ain't Greek at all, except, perhaps, a few words. What ain't Greek, is Egyptian; and what ain't Egyptian, is Greek. This book is very valuable. It is a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian.


Image
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_sock puppet
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Re: Why was Joseph Smith duped by Kinderhook Plates?

Post by _sock puppet »

grindael wrote:Has anyone actually looked at an ancient Greek Psalter? Many of them were parallel editions with other languages... But still, the account by Richards later was that Joseph just walked away from it and didn't say anything because Caswell was too fussy about the book. If Joseph knew it was Greek and said so, why didn't Richards mention this? Why not say, yeah, Joseph saw the book and it was Greek. But he didn't. Here is what Richards said, (from MormonThink)

The following excerpt was taken from Link is here. for the Times and Seasons Number 23: October 15, 1843 (pages 352-367):

REWARD OF MERIT.

It will be recollected by some, that a Mr. Caswell, professing to be an Episcopal minister, came to this city some twelve or eighteen months ago. He had with him an old manuscript, professing to be ignorant of its contents, and came to Joseph Smith, as he said, for the purpose of having it translated. Mr. Smith had a little conversation with him and treated him with civility, but as the gentleman seemed very much afraid of his document, he declined having any thing to do with it.

The Rev. gentleman afterward published a book, informing the inhabitants of the earth, that he had been to Nauvoo, and had seen the prophet-had conversed with the Mormons, and had heard a Mr. Kilbourne, a very conspicuous character in our neighborhood, (and who, according to Mr. Caswell's account, had been robbed of more than half the inhabitants of Iowa, possessed by the Mormons,) relate many wonderful stories;-after telling all the tales that he had heard, went to making others in regular Episcopal order out of whole cloth, and published his misshapen batch to the world, as a 'History of Mormonism' Thus as a reward of merit for publishing detraction and falsehoods already concocted, and adding a very splendid edition of his own, he has proven himself worthy of being exalted to the honor of bearing the sacerdotal robes, and of being raised to the very high and dignified office of curate (!!!!) in the English church. He has truly gained himself unfading laurels, and by continuing in well doing, and assisting some of the Rev. blackguards, whom the church of England have employed in England to abuse the Mormons, he may perhaps gain further honors. The following we clip from the Chicago Democrat:

"The Rev. Mr. Caswell, author of the 'History of the Mormons' late of the American Episcopal Church, has been admitted to the privileges of the English Church, under the provisions of a special act of parliament. He has also been appointed to a curacy.'


And Caswell recounted this, which is interesting,

He asked me if I had any idea of its meaning. I replied, that I believed it to be a Greek Psalter; but that I should like to hear his opinion. "No he said; "it ain't Greek at all, except, perhaps, a few words. What ain't Greek, is Egyptian; and what ain't Egyptian, is Greek. This book is very valuable. It is a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian.


Image

The reason that I find Caswall's account believable is that he would not have known of the GAEL that JSjr and his scribes had created, but Caswall's account includes a description by JSjr of the Greek Psalter that sounds much like the GAEL: "a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian." The existence of the GAEL was not then known to the public. If Caswall's account here of what JSjr is not accurate, how could Caswall have concocted such?
_grindael
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Re: Why was Joseph Smith duped by Kinderhook Plates?

Post by _grindael »

The reason that I find Caswall's account believable is that he would not have known of the GAEL that JSjr and his scribes had created, but Caswall's account includes a description by JSjr of the Greek Psalter that sounds much like the GAEL: "a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian." The existence of the GAEL was not then known to the public. If Caswall's account here of what JSjr is not accurate, how could Caswall have concocted such?


And if you look at the manuscript page I provided, you can see how Smith could get that idea. Caswell does actually admit that Smith thought that some of the characters were Greek. So claiming that Caswell said that Smith didn't know Greek is wrong.
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Why was Joseph Smith duped by Kinderhook Plates?

Post by _sock puppet »

grindael wrote:
The reason that I find Caswall's account believable is that he would not have known of the GAEL that JSjr and his scribes had created, but Caswall's account includes a description by JSjr of the Greek Psalter that sounds much like the GAEL: "a dictionary of Egyptian Hieroglyphics." Pointing to the capital letters at the commencement of each verse, he said: Them figures is Egyptian hieroglyphics; and them which follows, is the interpretation of the hieroglyphics, written in the reformed Egyptian." The existence of the GAEL was not then known to the public. If Caswall's account here of what JSjr is not accurate, how could Caswall have concocted such?


And if you look at the manuscript page I provided, you can see how Smith could get that idea. Caswell does actually admit that Smith thought that some of the characters were Greek. So claiming that Caswell said that Smith didn't know Greek is wrong.

Exactly. Caswall laid a trap for the "prophet" who walked right into it, demonstrating once again JSjr was a false prophet if a prophet at all.
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