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 Post subject: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Its apparent that Dehlin and Kate Kelly have had some sort of falling out. Anybody know what happened?


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:27 pm 
Star A
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Haven't heard any details alghough it doesn't surprise me that two self-righteous blowhards with savior complexes would butt heads.

Our Lord and Saviour, John Dehlin, posted this to Facebook this morning:

Quote:
A few friends have reached out to let me know that some folks are criticizing me and the Open Stories Foundation/Mormon Stories Podcast for hosting a Mormon Stories Podcast cruise next year in the Bahamas.

I feel sincerely fortunate that I am not privy to such conversations. Too many people to help. Too many marriages and families to help strengthen. Etc. Etc.

What we know for a fact is that Mormon Stories Podcast and the Open Stories Foundation (including Gina Colvin's A Thoughtful Faith Podcast, Dan Wotherspoon's Mormon Matters Podcast, Natasha Helfer Parker's Mormon Mental Health Podcast, and Margi Dehlin's Mormon Transitions podcast) are changing lives in positive ways - on a very large scale. And no one can convince or shame us otherwise. The daily emails are all the reinforcement and motivation we need. The downloads and views do not hurt - we are on track for over 6,000,000 MP3 downloads and Youtube/Facebook views for 2017. Our workshops and retreats (thus far) have been full, and the feedback has been astoundingly positive.

Good for you! Keep it up. Don't let the haters get you down.

Quote:
On a more personal note...please know that if I wanted to take a cruise for personal reasons...I'd much, much rather go with Margi and the kids...or my close friends...to somewhere quiet.

Of course YOU don't really want to go on the cruise. No. This is all self-sacrifice.

Quote:
We are alleviating depression and anxiety. We are restoring hope for many who have lost it. We are strengthening marriages and families. We are preventing suicides. And we are helping to build communities of support across the world for questioning, liberal, and post-Mormons.

Or... maybe the haters have a point.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:00 pm 
God

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psychedelicately wrote:
Its apparent that Dehlin and Kate Kelly have had some sort of falling out. Anybody know what happened?



6EQUJ5 wrote:
Quote:
We are alleviating depression and anxiety. We are restoring hope for many who have lost it. We are strengthening marriages and families. We are preventing suicides. And we are helping to build communities of support across the world for questioning, liberal, and post-Mormons.


Or... maybe the haters have a point.


Could you be more specific as to why you bolded that part? (It wasn't clear whether the original was bolded, please correct me if I am wrong in assuming it wasn't.) What point are you suggesting the haters may have?


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:19 pm 
God
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psychedelicately wrote:
Its apparent that Dehlin and Kate Kelly have had some sort of falling out. Anybody know what happened?


Why do you think this has to do with Kate Kelly? Have you seen something to verify that on social media etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:01 pm 
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psychedelicately wrote:
Its apparent that Dehlin and Kate Kelly have had some sort of falling out. Anybody know what happened?


About a year ago Kate got her nose out of joint because female podcasters connected to John were not being paid, or paid very little. She ranted on Facebook before checking her facts. John had had several open discussions about remuneration with all of the female podcasters and they all publicly distanced themselves from Kate's comments. John was blind-sided by the whole thing and felt he had been publicly shamed. To the best of my knowledge Kate has not publicly apologised.

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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:04 pm 
Star A
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Lemmie wrote:
Could you be more specific as to why you bolded that part?


No.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:12 pm 
God

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psychedelicately wrote:
Its apparent that Dehlin and Kate Kelly have had some sort of falling out. Anybody know what happened?

6EQUJ5 wrote:
Quote:
We are alleviating depression and anxiety. We are restoring hope for many who have lost it. We are strengthening marriages and families. We are preventing suicides. And we are helping to build communities of support across the world for questioning, liberal, and post-Mormons.


Or... maybe the haters have a point.

Lemmie wrote:
Could you be more specific as to why you bolded that part? (It wasn't clear whether the original was bolded, please correct me if I am wrong in assuming it wasn't.) What point are you suggesting the haters may have?
6EQUJ5 wrote:
No.

Ok, no problem.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:59 pm 
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Simon Southerton wrote:
About a year ago Kate got her nose out of joint because female podcasters connected to John were not being paid, or paid very little. She ranted on Facebook before checking her facts. John had had several open discussions about remuneration with all of the female podcasters and they all publicly distanced themselves from Kate's comments. John was blind-sided by the whole thing and felt he had been publicly shamed. To the best of my knowledge Kate has not publicly apologised.



Standard MO for KK.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:07 pm 
God
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The only thing I have found is some accusations from Kristy Money about lack of financial transparency and not paying the podcast folks a regular salary, and criticizing the OSF cruise trip or something. I haven't seen anything at all about Kate Kelly. Perhaps you need to change the title of the thread? Or perhaps provide some details about what it is you are talking about?

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... /?sort=new

This is what Kristy Money apparently posted on Facebook.
Quote:
"OSF completely revamped their pay structure for podcasters so that, while Dr. Dehlin continues to draw a regular base salary as CEO--with further unknown financial benefit from co-hosting podcasts with members of his household, collecting speaking fees for retreats, and performance bonuses--podcasters are not salaried employees (rather, they are outside contractors provided no benefits and paid relative pennies per download, on the justification that OSF is based in Utah, a right-to-work state). This change also coincides with the first year that OSF has not been transparent about its finances and the substantially large retreats began."

"I was present when individuals who work for Dr. Dehlin have been brought to tears from how he treated them for privately (in a very small group) expressing concerns about his behavior."


John repsonded
Quote:
We have a book keeper, an accounting firm, and a partner in an accounting firm is on our board. I have worked SUPER hard to be very, very responsible with OSF money, and accusations of financial impropriety are specious and intended to malign.
The OSF board is preparing a statement. At that point feel free to reach out to our board or me or Amy Grubbs or whomever. There is literally ZERO substance to any accusation of financial impropriety. Kristy's statements are specious and meant to malign with literally zero substance.


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Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Exactly how much money do people hope to make by being a John Dehlin sidekick?

I'm sorry people; please just go find something else to do before you find yourself in a place where you are complaining about your Mormon Stories pay.

Dear God.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:21 pm 
God
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It looks more like it's a problem of hiring family members to run the business. Kind of reminds me of the criticism Trump got for hiring all his kids as advisers. Not necessarily a bad thing or unethical, but it does look bad.

Kristy Money wrote:
Quote:
The 990 form due last week is literally the least you can do while staying compliant as a 501(c)(3).
A 990 won't show travel reimbursement, how income varies by podcaster, payments to family members, etc. In short, it won't address the issues I raised in my Facebook post. To its credit, OSF has reported more extensive, detailed financial records in past years--and not necessarily at tax time. Here is a history of when OSF financial statements have gone public on their website in the past:
2011: Released between 6 Jan 2012 and 10 Jan 2012 2012: Released between 20 April 2013 and 21 April 2013 2013: Released 9 July 2014 2014: Released 18 Jan 2015 2015: Released between 15 March 2016 and 18 March 2016
There are several changes in OSF activity (the changes in podcaster payment, Margi Dehlin starting as a podcaster and retreat presenter, and larger/more luxurious retreats) since the last OSF statement that are the primary reasoning behind this call for an accounting of this last year.
If the financials are released and everything is above board, wonderful. Given what I saw just before leaving OSF, I simply feel OSF supporters and listeners deserve to know everything is still above board.

The donation base of this model makes it a bit different from the scenario you outline. Podcasters do not earn all the money that is donated to their particular podcasts--they earn a fixed amount per download, and donations (even when those donations are associated with particular podcasts) go into the general OSF pool to support OSF generally.
This model is not inherently "wrong," but it is not what has long been advertised in the bumpers of OSF podcasts.
Also, the model you outline is a for-profit group practice. OSF is a non-profit. I have no problem with John making six figures, so long as he is completely transparent and follows ethical guidelines set by the IRS on non-profits vs. for-profits. He may want to consider starting a for-profit.

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Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:22 pm 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
Exactly how much money do people hope to make by being a John Dehlin sidekick?

I'm sorry people; please just go find something else to do before you find yourself in a place where you are complaining about your Mormon Stories pay.

Dear God.


Right.

The whole reddit thread is an embarrassment and ridiculous. I don't recommend it.

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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:24 pm 
God
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BUT...my point in all this is nowhere in any of these conversation has Kate Kelly spoke or even was referenced. The title of this thread is simply wrong as far as I can tell, unless this person is talking about events that happened a couple years ago?

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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:44 pm 
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cwald wrote:
BUT...my point in all this is nowhere in any of these conversation has Kate Kelly spoke or even was referenced. The title of this thread is simply wrong as far as I can tell, unless this person is talking about events that happened a couple years ago?


Well, it is a question.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:47 pm 
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cwald wrote:
It looks more like it's a problem of hiring family members to run the business. Kind of reminds me of the criticism Trump got for hiring all his kids as advisers. Not necessarily a bad thing or unethical, but it does look bad.


It's pretty much a family business, isn't it?

I have nothing against family businesses. It's a pretty smart way for a smalltime operation to run.

Trump has been criticized because the United States of America is not a family business.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:03 pm 
God
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Kishkumen wrote:
cwald wrote:
It looks more like it's a problem of hiring family members to run the business. Kind of reminds me of the criticism Trump got for hiring all his kids as advisers. Not necessarily a bad thing or unethical, but it does look bad.


It's pretty much a family business, isn't it?


Well, I don't know. They talk about The Foundation and the Board etc. and use so much corporate syntax and lingo that I'm not sure what OSF is really suppose to be to be honest. For the record, I don't have a beef with what Dehlin is doing, but I'm also not a member or financial contributor nor do I listen to OSF podcasts and such anymore...not for several years now.

Perhaps the poster wanted to have a conversation about Kate Kelly Dehlins infamous Facebook blowups from a couple of years ago. And if so, I apologize for assuming this was about the most recent scuffle that happened yesterday and continues on this morning.

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Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:01 pm 
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cwald wrote:
Well, I don't know. They talk about The Foundation and the Board etc. and use so much corporate syntax and lingo that I'm not sure what OSF is really suppose to be to be honest. For the record, I don't have a beef with what Dehlin is doing, but I'm also not a member or financial contributor nor do I listen to OSF podcasts and such anymore...not for several years now.

Perhaps the poster wanted to have a conversation about Kate Kelly Dehlins infamous Facebook blowups from a couple of years ago. And if so, I apologize for assuming this was about the most recent scuffle that happened yesterday and continues on this morning.


No worries. I really don't care that much about any of it. I still listen to the occasional podcast, although I have to admit that listening to each new Mormon dropout's story about stunning revelations of the Church not being true is getting old. That's not their fault; it's more a reflection of where I am at. I am at the point where I've heard so many of these stories that they are beginning to sound like reruns.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:18 pm 
Star A

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None of these podcasters need to be a part of the OSF. They could go off on their own without Dehlin. They would certainly have to take on more responsibility and hustle for interviews, but if they were willing to put forth the effort, it's a wide open field.

They should be middle of the road, however. Otherwise, they will only get disgruntled Mormons to interview.

I wonder if Dehlin made them sign Non-Compete Agreements. They should not sign one now if they haven't already signed one.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:32 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Exactly how much money do people hope to make by being a John Dehlin sidekick? I'm sorry people; please just go find something else to do before you find yourself in a place where you are complaining about your Mormon Stories pay. Dear God. ...I am at the point where I've heard so many of these stories that they are beginning to sound like reruns.


This. There is nothing else to see here, move along.

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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:11 am 
God

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Kishkumen wrote:
Exactly how much money do people hope to make by being a John Dehlin sidekick?

I'm sorry people; please just go find something else to do before you find yourself in a place where you are complaining about your Mormon Stories pay.

Dear God.


I was thinking the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:56 am 
Bishop
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John,

You can't diagnose people who aren't clients and the coaching profession does not use the medical model. "Anxiety" and "depression" are mood disorders. Coaching is a good, honest profession. Get training and read the research. Avoid the Martha Beck style and check out the ICF. Coaching is probably going to replace a lot of mental health in the future, but don't confuse it with psychology.

Real transparency is more difficult than claimed transparency. Since you don't want to be completely transparent, you should stop claiming transparency. Easy enough. (Goes for finances, "board" activities and by-laws.)

How about just making it an LLC? I bet you could get the board to give you the podcast at this point. I don't know how that might jive with the IRS, though. Could be some difficulties there. Can't the 501(c)3 sell assets to an LLC? If so, you'd then be clear to run it as a family business.

I'm sick of watching you repetitively harm vulnerable people who are in crisis. It takes a lot of strength for people to move on from Mormonism without all this ____ between themselves and the real world.

Get it over with. Move through this instead of repeating the cycle.

-RB

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