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 Post subject: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:27 pm 
God

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Every so often I have an "aha!" moment. I had one today.

Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. Everybody. I guess I should know better.

How do some people make stuff up?

1. Creating a strawman and then lighting it on fire, so to speak.

2. Creating false dichotomies.

3. Leaving stuff out. Omission.

4. Literally making stuff up. i.e.-Psychobabble in regards to other folks...and others say, "Oh yeah, THAT explains it."

5. False accusations.

6. Outright lying.

7. Hearing what is wanted to be heard and disregarding/distorting the rest. They 'make up' what is...ehem...really meant by what others say. Sort of goes along with the strawman fallacy.

I've noticed this more and more lately and come to the conclusion that it has probably been occurring over a long period of time and for one reason or another I wasn't open to it. Silly me. naïve.

I suppose that's why I've assertively said, "Games up!" a few times recently. It's become rather obvious to me what's going on.

Those that condone these sorts of actions by others are complicit as far as I'm concerned. It's amazing to me that folks will say something that is obviously inaccurate and others will simply let it slide.

Whether that's because of a common agenda...I don't know for sure. I can't say with definiteness why this occurs. Law of the pack? Dunno.

The light turned on. Of that I am grateful. I was starting to wonder if I was making things up. :lol:

The problem that occurs is that it is very difficult to carry on a humane/civil conversation in that manner...especially once one has realized that this is actually par for the course with some folks. If you can't trust someone to be telling the truth...then what else really matters?

Oh, and most recently...and this is the kicker...someone actually making up a falsehood and saying that I wasn't a Christian. Or at least bringing that up as a serious possibility. Fortunately, there were only one or two folks that joined in on that particular 'making stuff up' thread. It was the flavor of the day. Sorry I didn't join in. It shocked me that someone would even go that far in making stuff up and engage in that sort of innuendo.

Lesson learned.

Probably time to take another break...unless there's something of substance going on that deserves comment.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Thanks for the post, MG. It was like a laundry list of reasons to reject JSjr and his made-up religion. Bravo!

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"without evidence what you say is worthless"-Philo Sofee, 7/16/2017


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:09 pm 
God
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Right.

You are exactly right MG.

This sounds like a great summary of the LDS church leadership! Looks like you finally figured it out MG. Congratulations.



The LDS church summed up in a nutshell.

Quote:
MG wrote:

1. Creating a strawman and then lighting it on fire, so to speak.

2. Creating false dichotomies.

3. Leaving stuff out. Omission.

4. Literally making stuff up. i.e.-Psychobabble in regards to other folks...and others say, "Oh yeah, THAT explains it."

5. False accusations.

6. Outright lying.

7. Hearing what is wanted to be heard and disregarding/distorting the rest. They 'make up' what is...ehem...really meant by what others say. Sort of goes along with the strawman fallacy.

Those that condone these sorts of actions by others are complicit as far as I'm concerned. It's amazing to me that folks will say something that is obviously inaccurate and others will simply let it slide.

Whether that's because of a common agenda...I don't know for sure. I can't say with definiteness why this occurs. Law of the pack? Dunno.



The problem that occurs is that it is very difficult to carry on a humane/civil conversation in that manner...especially once one has realized that this is actually par for the course with some folks. If you can't trust someone to be telling the truth...then what else really matters?

Oh, and most recently...and this is the kicker...someone actually making up a falsehood and saying that I wasn't a Christian. Or at least bringing that up as a serious possibility. Fortunately, there were only one or two folks that joined in on that particular 'making stuff up' thread. It was the flavor of the day. Sorry I didn't join in. It shocked me that someone would even go that far in making stuff up and engage in that sort of innuendo.


OMG. The irony.

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Last edited by cwald on Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:10 pm 
God
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Quote:
Oh, and most recently...and this is the kicker...someone actually making up a falsehood and saying that I wasn't a Christian. Or at least bringing that up as a serious possibility. Fortunately, there were only one or two folks that joined in on that particular 'making stuff up' thread. It was the flavor of the day. Sorry I didn't join in. It shocked me that someone would even go that far in making stuff up and engage in that sort of innuendo.


Yep, that brings up some bad memories of my church court threats.

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"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:26 pm 
God

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Quote:
Fortunately, there were only one or two folks that joined in on that particular 'making stuff up' thread.

"making stuff up" indeed--the thread is entirely composed of direct quotes of mentalgymnast wondering what God "will do" with a dying man given he is not Mormon! That's by definition not a Christian thing to say, let alone repeat it half a dozen times. :cry: At least he stopped posting them on threads Grant or his family might see.

I'm guessing you weren't in church court for mocking someone who was dying, cwald. But yes, his quotes do show he is making stuff up. :rolleyes:

cwald wrote:
Right.

You are exactly right MG.

This sounds like a great summary of the LDS church leadership! Looks like you finally figured it out MG. Congratulations.

The LDS church summed up in a nutshell.

It's uncanny! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:36 pm 
God
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How long before the "I'm taking my ball and going home" post?

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:55 pm 
God

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Quote:
sock puppet:
Thanks for the post, MG. It was like a laundry list of reasons to reject JSjr and his made-up religion. Bravo!

cwald:
This sounds like a great summary of the LDS church leadership! Looks like you finally figured it out MG. Congratulations.


Expected.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:04 pm 
God

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Jersey Girl wrote:
How long before the "I'm taking my ball and going home" post?

:lol: see the last sentence of the OP:
Quote:
Probably time to take another break...


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:10 pm 
God

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Lemmie wrote:
...-the thread is entirely composed of direct quotes of mentalgymnast wondering what God "will do" with a dying man given he is not Mormon! That's by definition not a Christian thing to say, let alone repeat it half a dozen times.


And the beat goes on...

You hit on:
1,2,3,5,6,7

Your batting average is as high as ever in a single post. You almost covered all the bases. Thanks for the live demo...in real time...of my observations over a long period of time. You were able to pack them all into one post. Nice. :wink:

cwald wrote:
This sounds like a great summary of the LDS church leadership! Looks like you finally figured it out MG. Congratulations.

The LDS church summed up in a nutshell.


And the Lemming speaketh:

Quote:
It's uncanny! :lol:


So predictable.

Remember Lemmie...context, context, context. Read for complete comprehension. And pay special attention to #'s 1,3, and 7. You covered the bases, like I said, with almost all of the "making stuff up" numbered points. But these three...especially...stand out and manifest/show themselves consistently time after time.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:16 pm 
God

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Lemmie wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
How long before the "I'm taking my ball and going home" post?

:lol: see the last sentence of the OP:
Quote:
Probably time to take another break...


Unless there was something of substance. You cut that out. Ummm...that's number three. Check. So you end up "making stuff up"...again.

Hey, I thought there was something of substance to respond to. You don't want to disagree and/or take issue with that, do you? :wink:

The responses have been absolutely masterful and have shown some in depth consideration/thinking. Including yours, of course. They each deserved a response.

Well, there was one post I didn't respond to. Enough said there...

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:25 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
How do some people make stuff up?
Regards,
MG


https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:35 am 
God

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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
How do some people make stuff up?
Regards,
MG


https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

From the link:
Quote:
1 Owing to the many reports which have been put in circulation by evil-disposed and designing persons,..., all of which have been designed by the authors thereof to militate against its character...—I have been induced to write this history, to disabuse the public mind, and put all inquirers after truth in possession of the facts, as they have transpired, in relation... to myself....

Priceless. Even the OP whining isn't original.


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:20 am 
God

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Polygamy-Porter wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
How do some people make stuff up?
Regards,
MG


https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng


So far...deflection. May I suggest some reflection. Not that I would expect this to happen. Some folks are too set in their ways.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:34 am 
God
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Quote:
Oh, and most recently...and this is the kicker...someone actually making up a falsehood and saying that I wasn't a Christian


Can't take a compliment?

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:36 am 
God

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Just yesterday on:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45497

We had two posters that were making stuff up, from what I could see, and I challenged them on it. No response.

It's not the first time.

Others will typically acquiesce, nod yes, or give a high five. At that point they are complicit in 'making stuff' up to fit a certain worldview and/or agenda.

How can you have a decent conversation if you know that some folks are going to come into a thread and intentionally (or not?) engage in carrying out/implemening one of the numbered 'making stuff up' points I've shared in the OP?

The folks that I've been able to carry on a decent conversation with are those that are being honest, upfront, and NOT making stuff up.

I'm still questioning myself for not recognizing what was going on sooner than I did.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45503


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 am 
God

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Mentalgymnast keeps starting these threads where he accuses people of conspiracies, orchestrations and manipulations, then he leaves, bemoaning the fact that he used to be able to have these great discussions here, with people being tolerant and accepting of his approach, and having decent conversations, as he puts it.

I wondered what these decent conversations and great discussions looked like, so I did some reading in the archives. Imagine my surprise when I didn't quite find it to be like that.

What I did find told quite a different story. Here's a typical thread started by mentalgymnast in 2009:
mentalgymnast, 2009, wrote:
Hi Guys,

Time to drop in to Mormon Discussions after having ignored it for months. There is a big, wonderful world out there! This place is truly a wee little speck on the canvas of humanity and more particularly within the cyberspace world. When you're hanging out here all the time, day after day and week after week, it's easy to start thinking that this place is the summum bonum of all that is good in the world of online discussion groups. Not so. But it is kind of cool place. Same people hanging discussing the same stuff. Joseph was a loser,etc.

I came looking to see if there was anything new under the sun and if the church had fallen into ruin yet because of the work going on here at this discussion board. I would assume this would be the place to come and find out if LDS Corp. fallen on hard times. From the looks of it here, the church is lucky to be alive and still performing its mission throughout the world. :smile: With all the profoundly astute arguments and pointing fingers that are still wagging around at this place you'd think that the church would have thrown up its hands in defeat. Keep it up guys, sooner or later the church will crumble because of the work that you and others like yourselves have dedicated a good part of your days and/or months and years in doing....

Regards,
MG

viewtopic.php?p=240967#p240967

And the exact same complaints as this year, in 2008:
mentalgymnast, 2008, wrote:
There are those such as yourself that seem/appear to come across with an underlying premise/assumption that the conclusive thinking/analysis has already been done previously by those that are the the "brights"...the skeptics/antagonists/exmo's/disgruntled mo's,... and anything else out there on the horizon and/or playing field is basically hogwash....

That's why discussion...real discussion...doesn't take place around here...

Observing this becomes rather boring, tedious, and pedestrian after a while. Not to mention, a waste of time.

Regards,
MG
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7952&p=204154&hilit=bri%2Ahts#p204154

Boring as it is, he can't stay away, however, but for a fairly bizarre reason. Another OP, in 2008:
mentalgymnast, 2008, wrote:
...Fifteen years from now on a "cutting edge" board such as this one, the same everlasting debate(s) will continue...at the behest of the critics who just can't get enough.

Titillation comes in many forms.

viewtopic.php?p=150754#p150754

:eek:

There you have it. Not only is mentalgymnast drawn here by the critics, but it's their fault he finds it so titillating.

We may need a new caption for the "Don't feed the trolls" gif, something like

Please, Please! Don't Titillate the Troll.


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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:57 am 
Regional Representative
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Lemmie, thanks for digging these quotes up. It still baffles me that MG is surprised when people read his posts in a passive aggressive tone when he has so many posts like the ones you listed above. Sometimes I honestly think MG is trying to be sincere but he is a victim of his own posting style. I am curious if this is just a problem he has online. I imagine that if he were to meet many of us IRL it would at least be a pleasant conversation... why was/is it so hard for that to translate to digital media for him?

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:02 am 
God

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I see MG is still trying to convince himself the church is true.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:15 am 
God

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Oh. Another example from the last few days from the person that recently posted another "Don't feed the troll" warning on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45495

A cut and paste false narrative that "makes stuff up". I repeatedly suggested to this person that they go back and read everything I'd written in context. Whether they did or didn't, I don't know. What I do know is that they constructed a false narrative which went against what I was actually saying and the intent with which I was saying it. If others involved in that thread went back and actually read what I wrote...they know I am speaking the truth.

Smoke and mirrors.

Take your pick, one through seven on my list...and you can see that this sort of stuff is going on repeatedly by some folks. Let me be clear, however, not everyone. This isn't a mass conspiracy theory. :lol:

The problem is, it happens often enough that it really does inhibit/squelch any decent ongoing conversation. Here on this thread we have soon rather than later had our "arsonist" come in and cry "Troll"...as if that is the solution to the problem/concern that I am presenting in my OP.

The troll and/or arsonist is the person that comes into a thread where difference of opinion is being expressed and tries to muddle it all up using one of the techniques I've listed.

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:20 am 
God

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Lemmie wrote:
... he used to be able to have these great discussions here...


Truth be told, Lemmie, before you showed up there were very few, if any, of these long drawn out 'firestorms' with name calling, etc.

There was a significant degree of greater tolerance all the way around back in the day.

I am one that does enjoy a healthy 'back and forth'.

You make it nigh unto impossible through your flagrant/flammable/arsonist behavior. When you...and some others...are making stuff up it just doesn't lend to decent/civil conversation.

And here I am...feeding the troll. :sad:

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:22 am 
God

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Xenophon wrote:
Lemmie, thanks for digging these quotes up. It still baffles me that MG is surprised when people read his posts in a passive aggressive tone when he has so many posts like the ones you listed above. Sometimes I honestly think MG is trying to be sincere but he is a victim of his own posting style. I am curious if this is just a problem he has online. I imagine that if he were to meet many of us IRL it would at least be a pleasant conversation... why was/is it so hard for that to translate to digital media for him?


#4

Regards,
MG

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Some people make stuff up. Even here on a board like this. Go figure. What is kind of silly, in a way, is that it would take me so long to figure that out. Maybe I didn't want to think it was true. Maybe I give too much the 'benefit of a doubt' to other people. I guess I should know better.

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