Ritners destruction of Book of Abraham Apologetics

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Philo Sofee
_Emeritus
Posts: 6660
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:04 am

Ritners destruction of Book of Abraham Apologetics

Post by _Philo Sofee »

So did Ritner more or less just basically end Book of Abraham apologetics? I mean they're just doesn't seem to be anything else to add does there? I just ordered his book today. I finally found it in a cheaper paperback that I can afford and now I get to read the entire thing. It's going to be interesting to read his analysis. The book reviews on Amazon are really powerful. And I know he was a no-nonsense kind of in-your-face scholar, but he had to be because his own student had gone Jack Rabbit wild with ridiculous apologetics, and Ritner didn't want that reflecting on his own teaching professionalism.

I know John Gee is getting ready to produce yet another book on the Book of Abraham. I am going to be very curious whether he realistically updates and upgrades his former apologetic materials or if he's going to keep repeating the same old information. This is going to be a very telling situation for Book of Abraham apologetics. At least that's how I see it.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Polygamy-Porter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8091
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:07 am

Re: Ritners destruction of Book of Abraham Apologetics

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

Facts are facts.

Feelings change. You know that.
New name: Boaz
The most viewed "ignored" poster in Shady Acres® !
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: Ritners destruction of Book of Abraham Apologetics

Post by _Fence Sitter »

That depends on which Book of Abraham apologetic argument one considers. Those arguments that reject a literal translation like Bokovoy & Barney are not affected. While If I recall correctly Ritner only briefly touches on the length of the missing section and references Cook & Smith but, beyond that, he does not engage speculation about missing scrolls or segment of scrolls. Anyone who argues that the extant papyri actually contains any text from which Joseph Smith correctly derived the Book of Abraham are shown to be wrong.

The footnotes are where the interesting commentary happen, he really takes Nibley et al to task there for their previous translations. I found the index at the back where he locates all the patches to their respective scrolls, very telling. If there are dozens of feet missing from the extant scrolls, and if there are even whole scrolls missing, on which the most translation work would have been done and the most wear and tear would occur, why are all the patches from the two scrolls we currently have?

There is an excellent essay by H. Michael Marquardt giving background on the scrolls and mummies, how they arrived at Kirtland, KEP descriptions, a time line of Joseph Smith's involvement with the artifacts, and a list of the documents Joseph Smith is thought to have received.

An essay by Marc Coenen dates the papyri and identifies their original owners.

An essay by Christopher Woods discusses "The Practice of Egyptian Religion At "Ur of the Chaldees" concluding no such practice happened at Ur and dismisses the apologetic argument that Ulishim = Olishem.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Mormonicious
_Emeritus
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:59 am

Re: Ritners destruction of Book of Abraham Apologetics

Post by _Mormonicious »

What surprises me is that given all the OTHER obvious lies, distortions, misleading statements, omitting and other practices of the Mormoron corporation, that such effort is made to try and salvage the Book of Abraham.

What, if this lie is proven, all the other lies are MORE TRUE?
Revelation 2:17 . . give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Thank Google GOD for her son eBay, you can now have life eternal with laser engraving. . oh, and a seer stone and save 10% of your life's earning as a bonus. See you in Mormon man god Heaven Bitches!!. Bring on the Virgins
Post Reply