DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the plates

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_I have a question
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DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the plates

Post by _I have a question »

A friend once described a Sunday School class discussing that passage. "What country," the teacher asked, "has an eagle as its symbol?" "The United States!" the class members answered, which demonstrated that Jesus Christ’s prophecy pertains specifically to America.

Unfortunately, though, Americans aren’t the only people with an eagle as a national symbol. Eagles appear on the flags of Mexico and Zambia and on the coats of arms of Austria, Russia, Ghana, Egypt, Poland, Germany and Nigeria. An eagle appeared on Roman military standards and symbolized Hitler's Third Reich. Moreover, eagles aren’t carrion birds; they don’t typically gather around carcasses. The passage almost certainly refers to vultures, not eagles.

When people ask me whether the Book of Mormon is a literal translation from the plates, I tell them that, lacking those plates, we can’t possibly know. But I also tell them that there’s really no such thing as a “literal translation.” And we probably wouldn’t want one, anyway. It might be at least partly incomprehensible.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... lates.html

As is becoming the norm, almost immediately a commentator drives a horse and cart through DCP's signature plot holes.

The translation occurred by words appearing on a stone placed inside a hat. Those words were read aloud and written down by the scribe who then read them back. Only when they had been recorded as the same did the words on the stone disappear and new words appear. Joseph Smith didn't have the opportunity to choose what words to use for translating. It was given to him through words appearing on the stone. If the translation wasn't literal, that poses some interesting problems. For example, why was the word horse given if it meant a tapir? Why didn't the correct word appear on the stone?


Even his ornithology doesn't stand up to much scrutiny...

Being a detail-oriented person, I just have to pick a nit here.

Peterson said: "Moreover, eagles aren’t carrion birds; they don’t typically gather around carcasses. The passage almost certainly refers to vultures, not eagles."

While the passage very probably does refer to vultures, some types of eagles definitely **are** carrion birds. For one interesting example, I myself have seen a golden eagle sitting on a road-killed deer carcass. As it happens, that was at the side of a highway in Utah!
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the pl

Post by _Doctor Steuss »

[...] eagles aren’t carrion birds [...]

Except for when they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSQf66rTZvY

(As a side note, the very first picture for the wiki entry on "Carrion" shows a wedge-tailed eagle om-nom-noming on roadkill.)
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Re: DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the pl

Post by _I have a question »

Most of the commenters seem to have entirely missed my point. Oh well.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... lates.html
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the pl

Post by _Sanctorian »

I myself have seen a golden eagle sitting on a road-killed deer carcass. As it happens, that was at the side of a highway in Utah!


If it was on the East side of the highway, it might have looked a lot like DCP with wings.
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Re: DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the pl

Post by _Tom »

I have a question wrote:
Most of the commenters seem to have entirely missed my point. Oh well.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterso ... lates.html

"Verdad" agrees:
Verdad

Orem, UT

I think that several of the commentators here seem to have missed Dr. Peterson's point.

He isn't saying that the Book of Mormon is wrong. He's saying that there is and can be no such thing (for any work of any richness or complexity) as one single, perfect translation.

http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comment ... lates.html
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
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Re: DCP doesn't know if Book of Mormon a literal translation of the pl

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Is his point to entirely misrepresent the transcribing process? Because that's what it was. There was no translation involved unless you think the Divine simply can't do it right. Mr. Peterson is floating the idea that Elohim or one of His underlings couldn't convert 'Reformed Egyptian' to Biblical-ish English accurately.

- Doc

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