The false claimed benefits of Mormonism

[_honorentheos]

Thanks Lemmie, it's been one of those weekends where you stay indoors or in the pool and not much else.

I was kinda hoping MG would come back to this topic and share how he balanced out a central problem with his post.

I mean, isn't it one of the main ideas of Mormonism that even God can be bound to provide blessings if a person does what God commands? Mormonism practically rests on this foundational belief in action-> consequence. So in Mormonism the idea that circumstances reflect righteousness is pervasive in the culture. He chose to try and dismiss the OP on the grounds that the New Testament includes statements about life basically happening to us (and let's not forget the central lesson of Job while we're at it) so we're not informed at all about Mormonism if we perform some act tied to a promise in Mormonism but then don't have the expected consequence.

I think that's more problematic for Mormonism than most Mormons realize, actually, and one place that puts them at odds with many other faith traditions. They become much more "prosperity gospel" Christian than any other type when one looks at this aspect of the faith.

MG, I honestly hope you come back to this. I want to know how you reconcile the two ideas.

[_mentalgymnast]

I was kinda hoping MG would come back to this topic and share how he balanced out a central problem with his post.

I mean, isn't it one of the main ideas of Mormonism that even God can be bound to provide blessings if a person does what God commands? Mormonism practically rests on this foundational belief in action-> consequence. So in Mormonism the idea that circumstances reflect righteousness is pervasive in the culture. He chose to try and dismiss the OP on the grounds that the New Testament includes statements about life basically happening to us (and let's not forget the central lesson of Job while we're at it) so we're not informed at all about Mormonism if we perform some act tied to a promise in Mormonism but then don't have the expected consequence.

I think that's more problematic for Mormonism than most Mormons realize, actually, and one place that puts them at odds with many other faith traditions. They become much more "prosperity gospel" Christian than any other type when one looks at this aspect of the faith.

MG, I honestly hope you come back to this. I want to know how you reconcile the two ideas.

I think life is what you make it. The church teaches principles that can result in 'happiness'... wise use of resources, making good choices when it comes to moral/ethical/physical health, serving others in need and/or doing random acts of kindness, etc. Natural consequences come from doing/thinking positive things. Unless, of course, sh** happens. Which from time to time it does for most of us. Thing is, lots of folks, it they're smart, can and do make wise choices on their own. Natural law would say that they're going to experience similar results to those that have the game plan/template placed in front of them.

When it comes to some of the 'special blessings', such as "run and not be weary", and such, in response to living the WofW...or the blessings associated with paying an honest tithe, etc., I think that those 'blessings' are in the eye of the beholder. And as an outsider I think it would be difficult to accurately assess whether or not those 'special' blessings occur. Granted, Sanctorian and others have said that they don't see any noticeable difference...and sometimes even a net positive difference after leaving some of these commandments/directives behind.

It is what it is.

I'm of the opinion that God lets the rain and sun shine (natural 'blessings' of being alive) on those that are walking in obedience to the commandments and those that aren't...as long as correct/healthy/moral choices are being made.

Natural law, natural consequences.

Special blessings...in the eye of the beholder.

Regards,
MG

[_I have a question]

I mean, isn't it one of the main ideas of Mormonism that even God can be bound to provide blessings if a person does what God commands? Mormonism practically rests on this foundational belief in action-> consequence. So in Mormonism the idea that circumstances reflect righteousness is pervasive in the culture. He chose to try and dismiss the OP on the grounds that the New Testament includes statements about life basically happening to us (and let's not forget the central lesson of Job while we're at it) so we're not informed at all about Mormonism if we perform some act tied to a promise in Mormonism but then don't have the expected consequence.

I think that's more problematic for Mormonism than most Mormons realize, actually, and one place that puts them at odds with many other faith traditions. They become much more "prosperity gospel" Christian than any other type when one looks at this aspect of the faith.

It's called a covenant.
A covenant is a sacred agreement between God and a person or group of people. God sets specific conditions, and He promises to bless us as we obey those conditions. When we choose not to keep covenants, we cannot receive the blessings, and in some instances we suffer a penalty as a consequence of our disobedience.
https://www.lds.org/topics/covenant?lang=eng

It's also an article of faith.
We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.



I know a number of people who live the word of wisdom but who cannot run and not be weary.
(Every person entering the temple has stated they live the word of wisdom, and so every temple goer should be able to run and not be weary).

I know a number of people who can run and not be weary but who do not live the word of wisdom.

God is unreliable when it comes to keeping promises.
But rest assured, when He doesn't keep them he will blame you for it.

[_honorentheos]

I'm of the opinion that God lets the rain and sun shine (natural 'blessings' of being alive) on those that are walking in obedience to the commandments and those that aren't...as long as correct/healthy/moral choices are being made.

Natural law, natural consequences.

Special blessings...in the eye of the beholder.

Regards,
MG

Thanks for responsing, mentalgymnast. I'm probably more cynical and skeptical than you. When I was a member, I was a fan of the small non-LDS book by James Allen titled As a Man Thinketh. I get the impression you're probably familiar. :)

Anyway, over the course of my life even as a TBM I found myself coming to reject almost all of the book except the last chapter on Serenity. Where Allen's premise about thought and choice leading to just outcomes in the earlier chapters were the sort of wishful thinking that I personally believe is a curse on our national ego*, this last chapter was one to this day I can broadly agree with in that it inspires one to reflect on how one's choices form the inner person and resolve to develop one's character and inner-life to it's fullest as best one is able. But even then, I'm skeptical today because there is a belief in some form of universal ideal that underlies it which is not compatible with biological reality. I'm not convinced that life works that way or can. We're not formed in the image of any ideal, God or mystical pattern of the universe or what have you. We're human in all that means in terms of evolutionary theory, social and psychological complex and unique formed through fragile processes that are influenced by countless things beyond our control from before our birth to this very moment and beyond.


* Meaning, if one accepts that circumstance reflects just outcomes as Allen claims, one is more likely to look on one's fellows' circumstances and believe that they deserve them whether rich, poor, achieving or failing, blessed or cursed. It places faith in one's senses to tell us something about all the myriad choices and preconditions that lead a person to a point in life that aren't supportable by evidence. I've wondered how many political conservatives in the US are victims of the James Allen mindset and use it to justify supporting injustice?