Mormon gay policy is ?????will of the Lord????? - SLT

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_malkie
_Emeritus
Posts: 2663
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:03 pm

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _malkie »

cwald wrote:Bill Reel is on the warpath...calling out apoligists.

Reel wrote: One apologist from FairMormon has already chosen not to answer my questions after imposing himself into my Facebook post. The invitation stands for any other to put himself/herself out there publicly doing so. Here they are - please help me with a few simple yes or no questions and then a extended answer on the last two.

1.) Has a modern day prophet stated on record they knew a truth by revelation only to have a later prophet renounce or disavow such belief as false?

2.) Have the 15 leaders at the top in this dispensation unitedly/publicly held a belief(s) to be doctrine only to have later leaders disavow said beliefs?

3.) Assuming you answer yes to one of the first two - Knowing that a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and likely all 15 Prophets, Seers, and Revelators can be mistaken about what is doctrine and what comes from God through revelation and be mistaken about their interactions with the Holy Spirit than how can any of us trust the answers we get from our spiritual promptings and insights and how can they/us know with certainity they are right when they/we thought in the past they were right only to be wrong?

4.) If I assume you answer these first two yes again, I would like to know what we as members should do if we feel the Holy Ghost bear witness that such is occurring again and position that is being claimed from God by the leadership is not and at the same time, said position is costing the lives of our youth?
would love to have you on record being willing to answer these four questions. Thank you


I noticed that Mike T and Stephan Smoot have thown some cheap shots, but neither have bothered to directly answer the questions.

And, at least in the case of Bro Smoot, giving the weakest of possible reasons for their failure to answer: "you're not interested in a real debate, so your questions don;t deserve to be answered."

I believe that he could have answered the questions in less time and with less effort than it took him to refuse.

(overlapped with cwald's last post)
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _I have a question »

cwald wrote:Bill Reel is on the warpath...calling out apoligists.

Reel wrote: One apologist from FairMormon has already chosen not to answer my questions after imposing himself into my Facebook post. The invitation stands for any other to put himself/herself out there publicly doing so. Here they are - please help me with a few simple yes or no questions and then a extended answer on the last two.

1.) Has a modern day prophet stated on record they knew a truth by revelation only to have a later prophet renounce or disavow such belief as false?

2.) Have the 15 leaders at the top in this dispensation unitedly/publicly held a belief(s) to be doctrine only to have later leaders disavow said beliefs?

3.) Assuming you answer yes to one of the first two - Knowing that a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and likely all 15 Prophets, Seers, and Revelators can be mistaken about what is doctrine and what comes from God through revelation and be mistaken about their interactions with the Holy Spirit than how can any of us trust the answers we get from our spiritual promptings and insights and how can they/us know with certainity they are right when they/we thought in the past they were right only to be wrong?

4.) If I assume you answer these first two yes again, I would like to know what we as members should do if we feel the Holy Ghost bear witness that such is occurring again and position that is being claimed from God by the leadership is not and at the same time, said position is costing the lives of our youth?
would love to have you on record being willing to answer these four questions. Thank you


I noticed that Mike T and Stephan Smoot have thown some cheap shots, but neither have bothered to directly answer the questions.


These are obviously very easy questions to answer.
It is telling that the apologetic community is frightened of answering them directly.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. We have been taught we can always trust the living Prophet, and even if he gets things wrong and we follow him we will be blessed.
4. If the Holy Ghost prompts us to doubt our living Prophet we should first doubt our doubts, then stick it all on the shelf.

*one should note my answers are aligned with Church doctrine rather than IHAQ belief.

When you think about it, the doctrinal position on the answers to those questions is for members to not think for themselves. Follow the Prophet. Period.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _I have a question »

Gregory Smith addresses the second part of those questions....



http://blog.fairmormon.org/2016/01/11/w ... -prophets/

1. As a first step, we ought to seriously consider whether we are mistaken or misled.

2. We should pray to have our heart changed if this is necessary.

3. We should be patient

4. If, after all this, we still believe we are being told that the leaders of the Church are wrong, we are still not authorized to publicly preach or urge a different course of action or teaching.

5. We may be taught things by revelation that are true, and for our comfort, but it is still not our place to spread them publicly, or use them to advocate for change, and so forth.


In other words:
You're wrong or keep your mouth shut about it.

What a disgraceful piece of attempted mental guilting by Smith. It deserves its own thread.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Runtu »

Ceeboo wrote:But was your son speaking as a son - or was he just speaking as a human being?

Peace,
Ceeboo


I think the correct term is "spawn of the devil." :lol:
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Galatians 2:16 has never been more appropriate. This Church is officially anti-Christ.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Chap
_Emeritus
Posts: 14190
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Chap »

Yahoo Bot wrote: ...

I expect no less a treatment, akin to the treatment I give my septic tank. ...


That piece of rhetoric needs fixing. Surely Yahoo Bot is not implying that posters on this board want to tip some of this stuff into him?

BioWorld Septic Treatment:

Image

Liquid Optimizer - Helps microbes to reproduce and thrive; and
General Blend Microbes - a dry formulation of organic waste degrading microbes.

BioWorld Septic Tank Treatment
Only $69.95 US

14 Month Supply
2 to 6 person household


I mean, I do hope that Yahoo Bot's microbes reproduce and thrive: he needs his like the rest of us need ours. But I am sure we all agree that it is up to him how he deals with that very personal problem.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Symmachus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Symmachus »

Chap wrote:
I mean, I do hope that Yahoo Bot's microbes reproduce and thrive: he needs his like the rest of us need ours. But I am sure we all agree that it is up to him how he deals with that very personal problem.


I thought he was just coyly admitting that, like his septic tank, he's full of crap.
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
_Lemmie
_Emeritus
Posts: 10590
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:25 pm

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Lemmie »

Chap wrote:
Yahoo Bot wrote: ...

I expect no less a treatment, akin to the treatment I give my septic tank. ...


That piece of rhetoric needs fixing. Surely Yahoo Bot is not implying that posters on this board want to tip some of this stuff into him?

BioWorld Septic Treatment:

Image

Liquid Optimizer - Helps microbes to reproduce and thrive; and
General Blend Microbes - a dry formulation of organic waste degrading microbes.

BioWorld Septic Tank Treatment
Only $69.95 US

14 Month Supply
2 to 6 person household


I mean, I do hope that Yahoo Bot's microbes reproduce and thrive: he needs his like the rest of us need ours. But I am sure we all agree that it is up to him how he deals with that very personal problem.

I don't know, maybe Botfly secretly wants to be optimized.
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Themis »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey again YB! :smile:

Yahoo Bot wrote:Really, I don't expect a pat on the back and congratulations for having posted here. As I have said, I've received threats and complaints to my stake president and my former firm for posting here. One poster, with the encouragement of a former board admin, accused me of molesting a particular child. I have been temporarily banned for having the temerity of attempting to contradict a poster's claim with a public statement that poster had elsewhere in a government website.


Oh dear - That's quite the accusation! :confused:


This place is an evil cesspool,


While I can certainly appreciate and understand that the MDB isn't the most comfortable and/or pleasurable place for a Mormon to hang out (Whenever you get more than 162 atheists in the same room - it can be a tough crowd :smile: ) I certainly would not - and do not - consider the MDB to be "an evil cesspool."

made more so by the insistence of most posters to hurl their damage anonymously at the faithful in a religion in which they no longer believe.


Again, I understand the point that your trying to make - but - just because "they no longer believe" does not mean that Mormonism doesn't potentially still have enormous impact and/or influence on their real lives (Spouses/Friends/Family/Etc)

I just note it. I don't really care otherwise.


Noted! :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo


Bot is a troll. He particularly dislikes Runtu even though he has no good reasons to do so. He was just making another feeble attempt to push his buttons. Bot has gone through some crap from a person or two, but the clue for that is evil tends to beget evil.
42
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Mormon gay policy is ‘will of the Lord’ - SLT

Post by _Themis »

Chap wrote:Third possibility:

There is no God.
These guys are just deceiving themselves into thinking that the ideas they pull out of their backsides really come from a deity.


I think this is really what is going on. They are believers and they have been taught they have access to God long before they ever become leaders in the church. It's not surprising how they are approaching something they have been taught is really evil. The church has been consistently on the wrong side of history. My guess is usually about 10-20 years behind.
42
Post Reply