Amore wrote:Chap,
At least you realized how weird docCam's comments were, and didn't join in like a blind following pack of wolves in putting me down as much as some have.
This thread really demonstrates how many are stuck in stage 4 skepticism, besides rudeness and immaturity. Sad but it's not my problem others want to wallow in poisonous anger.
I'm not perfect and I realize I could've explained better, and I apologize for that. Still, I meet politeness with politeness. Many here see someone who in the past they disagreed with and go into attack mode even when that someone isn't trying to attack them. I know it's not me - it's them - because I've seen them do this to others they disagree with too. It's a different cult mentality, but same tactics - shaming, shunning or manipulating (even in parenting) a forced adhering belief.
Again - you can easily take a guy out of a cult, but not so easily take the cult out of the guy. This is kind-of how Fowler described stage 4. Not a fun place to be, but I know how easy it is to get stuck there.
Hello Ms. Amore,
Chap didn't think it was weird in the least you daft mouthbreather.
For those lurkers who are unfamiliar with Dr. Fowler's Stages of Faith: The Psychology of Human Develoment and the Quest for Meaning, 1981. (Harper San Francisco), here you go:
James Fowler's Stages of Faith DevelopmentDr. Fowler developed six stages a person might go through as they mature through adulthood.
He was not referring literally to religious faith, but that faith might be a component since the people interviewed generally had developed a faith of one sort or another.
Stage 1- You're a baby. You don't have faith. Trust and understanding develop, depending on the parent, and the building blocks of faith are formed.
Imagination is formed, and the trust in adults combined with the child's imagination creates faith.Stage 2- You're a kid. You're trying to figure out truth from un-truth. Your faith in adults impact your ability to perceive reality. Your imagination helps conceptualize their stories of faith. You believe in and can conceptualize Santa Claus because adults tell you he exists. You eventually disbelieve because you figure out they're full of crap.
Stage 3-You're a teenager or an extended adolescent. Most people don't progress beyond this point because they're stupid.
Dr. Fowler comes right out and says religious institutions work best if the majority of their congregation is in Stage 3. Something about keeping your mind like that of a child's is probably important to understand.
Stage 4- You're a Young Adult or a pre-midlife crisis Adult
This is where you see most people start to really question their realities. From politics to religion the thinking adult realizes others' perspectives are either not very thoughtful or a manipulation. The Self (ego) encounters an existential crisis (they're sad) and must create its own morality (good faith). If the Self chooses not to confront its own perceptions of reality then regression is inevitable. Dr. Fowler thinks it's possible to become overly reliant on the critical mind, and not take into account "unconcious forces" that influence one's Self-development.
Stage 5- You're older now, and probably wiser. 40's-60's.
You realize everything exists in a grey area. You realize you don't have all the answers. You're thoughtful and reflective. You seek understanding and are willing to engage others to increase your own understanding of reality (faith) to better Your Self (ego).
Dr. Fowler is a strong proponent of getting away from mythology & black/white thinking. In context to traditional faith, not faith defined as your perception of reality, Dr. Fowler thinks a Stage 5'er has moved away from literal thinking to that of metaphor and symbolism in order to make sense of their reality. The faith aspect, as it were, is the Self is attempting to understand Its Self, Others, and the World through symbolism. They realize reality, as it is, is very different from how the Self would like reality to be.
Stage 6- You're Gandhi or perhaps a Buddhist Monk.
They help others achieve enlightenment.
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As you can see Ms. Amore completely and fundamentally misunderstands Dr. Fowler's work, has no conceptual grasp of the material, and when asked what her point was couldn't form a basic thought to share with the community. Instead, and predictably, she lashed out because her insecurity of being exposed as a know-nothing on the subject was too much to bear. In her typical Stage 3 reaction, the extended adolescent Ms. Amore lacks the ability to be introspective and would rather enforce her narrative onto others using material that she hopes would make her look smarter than she really is. She's most likely regressing to a Stage 2 mental state. Her only hope is to take this exchange, be introspective about it, and begin to question her faith, as it were, and continue to develop into a Stage 4 adult.
I'm not hopeful.
V/R
Doc