Jana Riess asks an interesting question...

[_ludwigm]

Does that mean then that, since Church leaders do speak about it, you believe that women's and little girls' bare shoulders constitute one of the great issues of our times?

One of the great?

The greatest one, next after two earrings.

[_moksha]

-- it wouldn't mean anything, and condemning war, torture, racism, and crimes against humanity doesn't really require much moral insight.

...

Excellent point. Best to stick with bare shoulders. Better to wrestle with the bare you know than the issues which require little insight.

[_canpakes]

What it means is that those are essentially non issues. There wasn't any torture by legal definition...

Well, this is an interesting concept. The Church doesn't need to concern itself with a 'moral' issue if the determination by a random government employee is that it is not illegal ('torture' in this case).

Oh, wait - bare shoulders don't meet that qualification and get an exception, nor is coffee illegal or immoral.

bc, I'm always amazed at how well you can invalidate your own point, sometimes within the same sentence that you stated it.

[_palerobber]

But when our general leaders combine an intense focus on young women’s shoulders with near-silence on war, torture, racially-motivated violence on the part of police, and crimes against humanity, we should understand that as a problem.

What it means is that those are essentially non issues. There wasn't any torture by legal definition. The evidence points to Michael Brown (and Trayvon Martin) being the aggressor as well as there being no racism evident in the case at all. The wars are being fought against those who commit crimes against humanity. Etc.

so why haven't the prophets weighed in on important issues like black teen aggression against armed white men?

[_moksha]

Here is a link to the MD&D board, which suggests that morality is an ill-defined concept in Mormonism:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/64682-how-do-we-determine-what-is-a-moral-issue/

[_Nightlion]

In the view of the Brethren, pornography is worse than war, bare shoulders are worse than torture, scripture study more important than education and science, faith-promoting rumors and fantasies more valid than reality.

I was struck by this mentality in reading posts on this board by people who thought that Jehovah wiping out 99.99999% of life by flood because of a few miscreants was okay, while Kate Kelly's activities were a horrific outrage. And they accuse me of moral relativism.

A world filled with violence is not in line with your fractured fairy tale.

If only for the sake of the yet to be born the end of all flesh was the best option. As it soon will be again.

[_Wraith]

Mormonism has much more relevant problems than to focus on all the moral topics that these individuals think their leadership falls silent on. Fact of the matter is the leadership can go and claim that the world outside of Mormonism is largely governed by sin. Sin causes murders, war, broken households, torture, crimes against humanity. And look who has the "solution" to all of those problems, the Mormon church and the Mormon "authority" and the Mormon baptism. Not only the solution, but also the task force sent out daily to achieve that solution.

It's funny that people are questioning why their leadership is acting like regular non-mormon leaders with no prophetic ability, just people put in a position of authority going through the predictable process of climbing up the leadership ladder. And when you get to the top, the whole thing is run like a business is run. Keep the money flowing. So when we expect these people to comment along topics that are largely drawn across political lines, it's funny to me that Mormon believers are wondering why there's silence. What else are they expecting? Expecting Monson to go grab that seer stone and put it in his hat to figure out if Darren Wilson really executed Mike Brown so they can decide if police "murders" are really a relevant topic to start talking about? Or do they require Monson to go and stand up and say what all Mormon believers already believe....that sin causes broken households, sin causes crime, sin causes a lashing out against authority, sin causes death. No, the leadership built upon non-prophetic men are not going to comment about specific political issues to cause dissension and arguing amongst fellow Mormons because the fact of the matter is those men are not the mouthpiece of any deity.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Mormonism has much more relevant problems than to focus on all the moral topics that these individuals think their leadership falls silent on. Fact of the matter is the leadership can go and claim that the world outside of Mormonism is largely governed by sin. Sin causes murders, war, broken households, torture, crimes against humanity. And look who has the "solution" to all of those problems, the Mormon church and the Mormon "authority" and the Mormon baptism. Not only the solution, but also the task force sent out daily to achieve that solution.

This is a very accurate statement. It was a common thought on my mission that if people would simply embrace the gospel all of their worldly problems would be solved. The gospel was the vaccine to a world that suffered from its fallen state.

It also didn't help that our Mission President would often say that very thing during our conferences. We were "doctors" ministering to the sick and afflicted.

It's funny that people are questioning why their leadership is acting like regular non-mormon leaders with no prophetic ability, just people put in a position of authority going through the predictable process of climbing up the leadership ladder. And when you get to the top, the whole thing is run like a business is run. Keep the money flowing. So when we expect these people to comment along topics that are largely drawn across political lines, it's funny to me that Mormon believers are wondering why there's silence.

Once again, hitting the nail on the head. The Mormon church is a corporation. It's indisputable. It has massive financial liabilities, and must act in its own best interest (the bottom line). Taking clear political positions hurts the bottom line, unless they think they can get away with low hanging fruit (which is meant to increase the bottom line).

What else are they expecting? Expecting Monson to go grab that seer stone and put it in his hat to figure out if Darren Wilson really executed Mike Brown so they can decide if police "murders" are really a relevant topic to start talking about? Or do they require Monson to go and stand up and say what all Mormon believers already believe....that sin causes broken households, sin causes crime, sin causes a lashing out against authority, sin causes death. No, the leadership built upon non-prophetic men are not going to comment about specific political issues to cause dissension and arguing amongst fellow Mormons because the fact of the matter is those men are not the mouthpiece of any deity.

Amen. Great post.

[_Nightlion]

Here is a link to the MD&D board, which suggests that morality is an ill-defined concept in Mormonism:

Everything in Mormonism today is ill-defined. That's the beauty of it.