In June 2010, however, the California Fair Political Practices Commission found the church guilty on 13 counts of late campaign reporting connected to Prop. 8 and reached an agreement whereby the church admitted to spending $2,078 in an amended filing and had to pay $5,538 in fines. Some have estimated that the church raised $30 million from Mormon families for the Prop. 8 fight, along with “in kind” services such as phone banking, direct mail and more.
Karger says the new documents are even “juicier” than the ones he released over Prop. 8, showing a highly adept, political organization within the church’s complicated, authoritarian hierarchy and vast business holdings. Karger contends the documents prove the Mormons exceeded the percentage of time and money allowed by the IRS for a nonprofit such as a religious organization to participate in politics.
“These documents show how the Mormon Church is such a political machine that they singlehandedly wrote and orchestrated this initiative,” says Karger. “Prop. 22— they made it happen. And that’s what’s so revealing. I was aghast at how much influence they had.”
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Compare these documents to Jeffrey Holland speaking at Harvard in 2012 discussed on this board here. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24163
Elder Jeffrey R Holland wrote:Institutionally, not a single dollar, not one red cent, of money from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints went into Proposition 8
Elder Jeffrey R Holland wrote:by “we” I just emphasize totally this is a voluntary, lay participation with no money and no formalization institutionally, but something we all cared about
It's hard to say there is "no formalization institutionally" when you basically created all the coalitions and drafted the language, created multiple websites, satellite broadcasts, and sent memos asking for monetary donations and time read to every congregation in California.
You can try to whitewash your crappy behavior years later but no matter how hard you try to cover it up, it still stinks.
Phaedrus Ut wrote:Compare these documents to Jeffrey Holland speaking at Harvard in 2012 discussed on this board here. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24163
Elder Jeffrey R Holland wrote:Institutionally, not a single dollar, not one red cent, of money from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints went into Proposition 8
Charles Manson never killed anyone either.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:Charles Manson never killed anyone either.
jesus. is that sorta like a godwin comment? that was fast.
i think the behavior from holland over the last few years has a lot more influence on disaffections than the goofy book of abraham translation or the dna of the Navajo Indians.
if the church was led by civilized normal people who understood their great-grandchildren better, these sorts of gaffes would be less frequent. he is a tool.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
moksha wrote:What makes a story from 2009 of interest now?
well, in fairness the link in the original post is from a few days ago. i find the logic in the whole thing a bit off though. the memos from neil maxwell from 1996 are not that relevant to the conversation in my opinion.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
moksha wrote:What makes a story from 2009 of interest now?
well, in fairness the link in the original post is from a few days ago. i find the logic in the whole thing a bit off though. the memos from neil maxwell from 1996 are not that relevant to the conversation in my opinion.
As I understand it, and I may be wrong, the author in of the link is suggesting that the activity from Church members during proposition 8 was a culmination of a longer term campaign waged by the Church.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)