Authority Tropes

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_Tarski
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Authority Tropes

Post by _Tarski »

Reading Sethbag's post about Lowry Nelson set my mind thinking about various random things on the topic of general authorities, the way they think, and the way they expect church members to think.

The following thoughts drifted through my mind:

1. The longer I live, the more obvious if becomes that GA's have no special wisdom. To the contrary, what we see is about what you would expect given the age, gender and local political culture. Basically, no better than a typical grumpy old republican white grampa. They display as much social prejudice and sexism as they could conceivably get away with under the watchful eye of the media. Looking at GA attitudes from a few decades ago sure puts things in perspective.

2. Related to the above, I would be so far from being intimidated by one of these guys as you could possibly imagine should I end up being subjected to their "penetrating gaze" in some setting. I am thinking of a scenario something like one of them ends up speaking in my parents area and I end up meeting one of them and it comes out that I am an inactive member of record. That's has happened before.

3. I was thinking of how ridiculous it is when someone tries to get you to not think for yourself, consider evidence or follow your own conscience by insisting that obviously one should not trust in the "arm of flesh". Umm, hello? These guy ARE the arm of flesh. Sweaty old mortals with opinions. So annoying. There is this whole system of ill thought out memes, tropes, pat phrases, and so on, the function of which is to trick you into thinking it is a virtue to obey the GA's at all costs and to demote every other consideration from science to conscience.

"Obedience the first principle of heaven" (Oh, yeah? Obedience to you but not the Imam down the street? Why am I not surprised?)

"The thinking has been done"

"Don't speak evil of the Lord's Annointed" (So says the old geezers that unilaterally insist that they happen to be the Lord's anointed.)

"Follow the "spirit" instead of worldly science, instead of your measly conscience, and even instead of the manifest meaning of sacred text. Oh, and the important addendum is that if you aren't following the old geezers, then you aren't really receiving the spirit so ya might as well cut out the middle man and just do what the OG's in Salt Lake say." (not a real quote but obviously a familiar meme).

Then there is that attempt at a penetrating stare that these guys and even their imitators at the local level like to use on doubters. There is this idea hanging in the air in Mormon culture that these dumpy garment encrusted businessmen have a "gift of discernment" which just turns out to be some Machiavellian mind f*** for anyone weak enough to be snookered by it.
(Lowry Nelson seemed to be somewhat immune but he could have done better in that he remained a believer in a church historically founded on such intimidation. After all Joseph Smith was the best at it).

What are you favorite tropes, phrases, memes, concrete anecdotes, or instances of intimidation or hero worship that relate to the way the GA's keep the sheeple in a state of sheeplehood?
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Authority Tropes

Post by _Fence Sitter »

BKP visited my mission and gave a talk to a large number of missionaries. At the end of his talk he opened the floor to questions. I raised my hand and asked if he would explain a little about the 2nd anointing. All I got in reply was:

"You don't need to know that."

It has always bothered me that he felt he was the judge of what I needed to know. What is the point of being given our free agency if someone else gets to decide what we "need to know"?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Tarski
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Re: Authority Tropes

Post by _Tarski »

Normally I don't think about Mormonism much these days, but since I am going to visit my folks in Utah for a few days I was primed and realized that reading Sethbag's post had somehow conjured up a fantasy where I am confronted by a GA who tries to somehow give me the old penetrating gaze or something or who tries to lovingly but sternly confront me about my decades long "inactivity". Should he ask, I would love to serenely assert that not only don't I think the church is true, but that I think it's quite obviously false. I suppose I resent the power these guys had over my mind when I was an adolescent and the wasted time and opportunity. I would have a few things to say back after all these years. For one thing I would love to return the penetrating stare and call BS on the whole mystical "I know" thing. "No you don't and I think you know it"

I understand that their must be authority structures in civil society (police, courts, etc) but I can't figure out why some people feel the need to seek out and submit themselves as much as possible to these superfluous ecclesiastical authorities.

jee wiz, aren't I the rebellious spirit? LOL
There is another one: The rebellious spirit idea.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_sock puppet
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Re: Authority Tropes

Post by _sock puppet »

Fence Sitter wrote:BKP visited my mission and gave a talk to a large number of missionaries. At the end of his talk he opened the floor to questions. I raised my hand and asked if he would explain a little about the 2nd anointing. All I got in reply was:

"You don't need to know that."

It has always bothered me that he felt he was the judge of what I needed to know. What is the point of being given our free agency if someone else gets to decide what we "need to know"?

It's kind of pathetic to be Thomas S. Monson being the titular head when you have to play 2nd bananatool to BKP--and probably behind DHO and The Dodo (Holland) too.
_sunstoned
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Re: Authority Tropes

Post by _sunstoned »

From my limited observations it seems that most, if not all GAs are not very versed in the scriptures as you would expect from someone in a full time ministry. Seldom is there a conference talk that goes into any kind of doctrinal depth at all.

I do not think that most of the top 15 really have a good knowledge of the history of the church. The Swedish rescue is a good example of this. Jensen and the other GA were clueless during the Q&A session.

In the rare times that these guys are interviewed by a non-Mormon in a non-scripted interview, they do not do well. Jeffrey "I am not a dodo" Holland's BBC interview is an example of this. It seems many of them are not so quick on their feet.

They are just old white business men who have become accustom to privilege. The system they are part of has been set up and honed over the years to keep the top 15 in power.

I would like to have the opportunity to face down a GA and offer him my testimony that the church is in no way true. My testimony would differ in that I could back mine up with facts.
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