A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challenge

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_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:I think that my ex-husband suffers from this condition.


Image

Image

- Doc



I did. I divorced him. LOL
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

DrW wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:I think that my ex-husband suffers from this condition.

Could well be. In the 2008 paper linked below, lifetime prevalence for NDP (as defined in DSM IV) was reported at about 7.7% for males and a bit lower for females at about 4.8%.

(See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2669224/*)

As you can see from this paper, being divorced would place your ex-husband in as somewhat higher risk category for NPD than that of the general male population.

Given these prevalence numbers (and Lemmie can check me on this), I think it is safe to say that, statistically, there is a better than even chance that anyone who is acquainted with, say, 50 or more males knows at least one individual with some form of this personality disorder.

In your particular case, Jesse, I can pretty much guarantee it.
_______________________________________________

*The prevalence numbers reported in this 2008 paper (n = >34K) appear to be somewhat higher than those from the general population based on more recent, and somewhat more restrictive, diagnostic criteria. Generally accepted numbers for NPD range up to 16% in the "clinical population" (mainly those who seek, or are referred, for mental health care -including for substance abuse). At a minimum, prevalence is probably a bit over 1% for males in the general population (non-clinical e.g. no substance abuse, etc.) - again depending on diagnostic criteria used.


Has there been a study on whether or not this condition is more prevalent in gay individuals? Just curious.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_Lemmie
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Lemmie »

DrW wrote:This thread was started by E W C in May of 2014. However, DCP was exhibiting many of his now characteristic behaviors long before then (including need for admiration, disregard for others' feelings, an inability to handle any criticism, resentment of others, and a sense of entitlement).

As documented on this thread, there was no indication of a change in DCP's behavior by December of 2014, or by October of 2017 for that matter, even after being called out in public by E W C in May of 2014. DCP's festering resentment at the loss of his former position at FARMS remains an occasional subject of his writing some five years after the fact.

This failure by DCP to "be decent" (as Kishkumen kindly advised upthread) is consistent with an important aspect of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), namely; it is incurable.

Thus, no change would be expected, and it is not surprising that the behaviors mentioned above would persist, becoming increasingly apparent into 2017.

According to DSM 5, NPD must be diagnosed by a professional. If one were a professional, any 5 of the following 9 criteria from DSM 5 (to which an inability to handle criticism should probably be added explicitly) would seal the deal.

1. A grandiose logic of self-importance
2. A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
3. A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
4. A desire for unwarranted admiration
5. A sense of entitlement
6. Interpersonally oppressive behavior
7. No form of empathy
8. Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
9. A display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes
______________


Wow, I had no idea Peterson read this board so obsessively. He must comb through every single thread, searching through every word posted, desperate for a crumb of a comment referring to him.

Here's his latest, an interpretation of what DrW wrote. in his post, you can almost see the glee with which he acknowledges that someone is talking about him; but his exaggeration of these attributes is just embarrassing:
my signature traits — which include an utter disregard for the feelings of others (curiously combined with a desperate craving for their admiration and a deep resentment of them), a sense of personal entitlement,  an inability to tolerate even the slightest criticism, and a complete lack of decency — mark me almost certainly as a sufferer from “narcissistic personality disorder”

my goodness. I can certainly see why the Maxwell Institute tried to quietly get rid of him. That kind of instability can only be damaging in an academic setting.

I recall when he used to post stuff like this at Mormon dialogue--right round the time he was thrown out of the MI, however, those humble-brag, look how bad I am!! threads seem to have all been permanently closed by mods. Even over there, Peterson is apparently too much to stomach.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Did he just plagiarize Dr. W's post?

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Lemmie »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Did he just plagiarize Dr. W's post?

- Doc

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Check out this description from Peterson's DSM 5 source:
In most cases, on the exterior, these patients act with an air of right and control, dismissing others, and frequently showcasing condescending or denigrating attitudes. Nevertheless, internally, these patients battle with strong feelings of low self esteem issues and inadequacy.

Sound familiar? Maybe Peterson posted that source as a cry for help.
_DrW
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _DrW »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Did he just plagiarize Dr. W's post?

- Doc

Probably not. In DCP's comments regarding this thread he provided attribution for the passages he paraphrased, and cited DSM 5 as the source for the text that was copied word for word. Looks like 'fair use'.

However, if there were ever any doubt as to how DCP views himself, one need only consider the title of his latest post on Sic et Non; ("Of politics, personality disorders, and me") and note that the post is essentially about attributes that others see him as having in common with the current President of the United States of America. As Lemmie might note - humble bragging of the highest order.

All of this should not be much of a surprise, however. Recall that NDP is considered incurable. DCP can leave MDB, but can't leave it alone - at least when it happens to mention him.

On DCP's behalf, it can fairly be said his narcissism doesn't hold a candle to the florid NPD symptomatology exhibited on a near daily basis by the pussygrabber-in-chief, for whose behavior DCP expresses such concern.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _DrW »

Jesse Pinkman wrote:Has there been a study on whether or not this condition is more prevalent in gay individuals? Just curious.

Jesse,

Apologies for not responding sooner. The short answer to your question is "yes". As an example, here is the abstract from one such study*.
According to orthodox psychoanalytical theory, narcissism and homosexuality are strongly associated. This association played a major role in pathologizing homosexuality. The present study compared self-esteem and two measures of narcissism among 90 homosexual and 109 heterosexual male students, who filled in a demographic questionnaire, Rosenberg's Self-Esteem Scale, the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, and the Pathological Narcissism Inventory, which addresses both grandiose and vulnerable subtypes of narcissism.

The hypothesis, which is based on the Freudian connection between narcissism and homosexuality, is supported by the results, indicating that the homosexual students score higher in both measures of narcissism and lower on the self-esteem measure, compared to their heterosexual counterparts. Intra-psychic, as well as environmental, interpretations of the results are suggested in the discussion.


One reason for the slow response here is that I certainly did not want to be seen as commenting, in any way whatsoever, with respect to DCP in this regard. It's just not relevant - at all.

Another reason is that I'm not sure one should pay much attention to these kinds of studies (relatively small n in a select and somewhat non-representative cohort - in this case students). It may not matter all that much, anyway. Both behavior patterns are considered pretty much irreversible, so there doesn't seem to be much of a point.

_____________________________


*J Sex Marital Ther. 2010;36(1):24-34. doi: 10.1080/00926230903375594.
Narcissism and self-esteem among homosexual and heterosexual male students.

Author: Rubinstein, G.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Jesse Pinkman
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Jesse Pinkman »

Thanks for responding to my post, DrW. I really appreciate it.
So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MDB.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MDB
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_DrW
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _DrW »

Jesse Pinkman wrote:Thanks for responding to my post, DrW. I really appreciate it.

If I recall correctly from some of your earlier posts on the subject - the findings in the study cited were probably not much of a surprise to you. Good to know that concern is now in your past.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A Very Brief and Professional Response to DCP's Challeng

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

DrW wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Did he just plagiarize Dr. W's post?

- Doc
Probably not. *snip*.


Oh, I was just making a joke. :D

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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