It is currently Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:34 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:14 am
Posts: 5534
Location: Over at the Frankenstein place
I'll take this opportunity to tell you all that the 11:00 surprise is coming, just not at 11:00.

Does anyone have advice on filing a press release that I can ignore?

Why is everyone making a big deal out of this?

_________________
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:18 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 20824
Location: Koloburbia
Don't worry, you never specified the day or year. Could be that hours are measured differently in ex-mo time. Heck, these hours might even be equivalent to six thousand years in Earth time.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:29 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:53 am
Posts: 4323
Location: Oregon
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?

_________________
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:44 am 
cwald wrote:
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?



Because Tom is a ____ father who publicly tries to humiliate his own son. He's also just an all around douchebag.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:22 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:14 am
Posts: 5534
Location: Over at the Frankenstein place
Shiloh wrote:
cwald wrote:
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?



Because Tom is a s****y father who publicly tries to humiliate his own son. He's also just an all around douchebag.


Really? How so?

_________________
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:22 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:53 am
Posts: 4323
Location: Oregon
Shiloh wrote:


Because Tom is a s****y father who publicly tries to humiliate his own son. He's also just an all around douchebag.


Do you want to be more specific, or are you content to throw this man under the bus without any explanation for this outrageous comment?

Never mind. I don't want to discuss it with you. I was more interested in why Mercury seems grumpy this week about Tom's activities.

_________________
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:32 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:37 pm
Posts: 1376
cwald wrote:
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?

Seriously. If you don't like Tom or agree with what he's doing, ignore it or just watch it play out. Why so many ugly posts about him?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:15 pm 
Priest

Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:35 pm
Posts: 308
Madison54 wrote:
cwald wrote:
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?

Seriously. If you don't like Tom or agree with what he's doing, ignore it or just watch it play out. Why so many ugly posts about him?


I think the answer is found in the bitterness and anger towards the LDS church, which has been directed toward Tom Phillips. The angry and bitter seem to redirect their anger and bitterness toward Tom due to that his "surprise" will not utterly destroy (or even significantly dent) the LDS Church.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:17 pm 
MrSimpleton wrote:

I think the answer is found in the bitterness and anger towards the LDS church, which has been directed toward Tom Phillips. The angry and bitter seem to redirect their anger and bitterness toward Tom due to that his "surprise" will not utterly destroy (or even significantly dent) the LDS Church.


How about another scenario?

A grown man accuses his former Church of fraud because he voluntarily gave tithes and offerings based on his religious conviction at the time. His views changed. Just like lots of people's views change. In grad school I knew lots of former Catholics, orthodox Jews, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc... Much like Tom, these folks felt a little silly for believing such things in their past. Some were even angry that they had been misled/manipulated.

But every single one of them recognized that they were adults and that they freely chose faith at one point just as they know reject faith.

Tom Phillips sucks because he makes infants of all ex-Mormons. Are you telling me that a grown man into his 60s is not going to take any responsibility for his past beliefs? People change their minds about all sorts of things all the time. I take a special kind of douche to blame others for your own choices. This accusation of "inducement" is absurd. Even when a Mormon I had the choice to pay tithing and there were years where I decided that not paying tithing was more important than going to a nephew or nieces temple wedding.

Tom Phillips, grow up. You are making all of us exmos appear like petulant children incapable of making adult choices and accepting adult consequences.

No one forced you to be Mormon.

No one forced you to pay tithing.

YOU made these choices using your free will. Now you want to blame Tom Monson because you realized your beliefs were nutty for all those years.

And let's not forget that an attack on free speech and freedom of religion is an attack on FREEDOM FROM RELIGON.

What if I were to sue Ed Decker because the Godmakers made me question my faith? Should I try and nail him for all the back tithing I have not paid? There are clear lies in the GM and GMII. How about I get him?

What about Richard Dawkins? He doesn't fairly represent some Christian theology in the God Delusion. Can I get him for fraud too?


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 2434
Shiloh wrote:

No one forced you to be Mormon.

No one forced you to pay tithing.

YOU made these choices using your free will. Now you want to blame Tom Monson because you realized your beliefs were nutty for all those years.


Replaced with:

No one forced you into XYZ scam.

No one forced you to pay to XYZ scam.

YOU made these choices using your free will. Now you want to blame the XYZ CEO because you realized your beliefs were nutty for all those years.

See, the issue is one of fraud Shiloh. Is Mormonism falsifiable? Are the claims that the LDS church makes to collect tithes based on frauds in the same way that companies that solicitor investors are shown to be frauds when it turns out they are ponzi schemes?

Fraud...let it roll on your tongue a bit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:30 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:15 am
Posts: 3058
Location: OreIda
Shiloh wrote:
How about another scenario?

A grown man accuses his former Church of fraud because he voluntarily gave tithes and offerings based on his religious conviction at the time. His views changed. Just like lots of people's views change. In grad school I knew lots of former Catholics, orthodox Jews, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc... Much like Tom, these folks felt a little silly for believing such things in their past. Some were even angry that they had been misled/manipulated.

But every single one of them recognized that they were adults and that they freely chose faith at one point just as they know reject faith.

Tom Phillips sucks because he makes infants of all ex-Mormons. Are you telling me that a grown man into his 60s is not going to take any responsibility for his past beliefs? People change their minds about all sorts of things all the time. I take a special kind of douche to blame others for your own choices. This accusation of "inducement" is absurd. Even when a Mormon I had the choice to pay tithing and there were years where I decided that not paying tithing was more important than going to a nephew or nieces temple wedding.

Tom Phillips, grow up. You are making all of us exmos appear like petulant children incapable of making adult choices and accepting adult consequences.

No one forced you to be Mormon.

No one forced you to pay tithing.

YOU made these choices using your free will. Now you want to blame Tom Monson because you realized your beliefs were nutty for all those years.

And let's not forget that an attack on free speech and freedom of religion is an attack on FREEDOM FROM RELIGON.

What if I were to sue Ed Decker because the Godmakers made me question my faith? Should I try and nail him for all the back tithing I have not paid? There are clear lies in the GM and GMII. How about I get him?

What about Richard Dawkins? He doesn't fairly represent some Christian theology in the God Delusion. Can I get him for fraud too?


How about another scenario?

Tobin, Tobin is that you?

_________________
aka Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:08 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:53 am
Posts: 4323
Location: Oregon
Hmmm?

Shiloh, do you feel the same way towards, say William Law? Were the Law brothers being childish when the printed the Navou Expositor?

_________________
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:56 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:14 am
Posts: 5534
Location: Over at the Frankenstein place
My skepticism comes down to the fact that Tom is grandstanding. The lawsuit will be thrown out in short order. Ultimately the "surprise" was poorly managed and reads like the lawsuit from the Godmakers.

_________________
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:00 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:14 am
Posts: 5534
Location: Over at the Frankenstein place
Madison54 wrote:
cwald wrote:
Wow. You're really pissed about this. Bitter?

Why so much hostility towards Tom?

Seriously. If you don't like Tom or agree with what he's doing, ignore it or just watch it play out. Why so many ugly posts about him?


Seriously. If you don't likethe church or agree with what they are doing, ignore it or just watch it play out/ Why so many ugly posts about the church?

Tom Phillips apologetics in the exmo community are embarrassing.

_________________
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:30 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:36 pm
Posts: 10719
Location: Betwixt & Between
Shiloh wrote:
No one forced you to be Mormon.

No one forced you to pay tithing.

YOU made these choices using your free will. Now you want to blame Tom Monson because you realized your beliefs were nutty for all those years.

And let's not forget that an attack on free speech and freedom of religion is an attack on FREEDOM FROM RELIGON.


Shiloh, you are (deliberately?) missing the point.

The insinuation is not one of being 'forced' to do something, it's one of being 'induced' to do something on the basis of being given false information. For instance, if I induce you to buy a car on the basis that it would do 140 mph and has real leather seat coverings and the car subsequently turns out to be able to do only 100mph and has faux leather seat coverings - I haven't forced you to buy the car, but I induced you to under false pretences. That's fraud. That's what this is about.

_________________
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:53 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 20824
Location: Koloburbia
The suit is a sure loser from the point of view of actually expecting positive results. The fact that no religion can offer proof to metaphysical claims is obvious. I for one would not like to see the Archbishop of Canterbury have to wonder aloud in services as to whether someone could rid him of this meddlesome anointee.

Of course, the "shot heard round the world" did not have to actually circumnavigate the globe.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:55 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:36 pm
Posts: 10719
Location: Betwixt & Between
moksha wrote:
The suit is a sure loser from the point of view of actually expecting positive results. The fact that no religion can offer proof to metaphysical claims is obvious. I for one would not like to see the Archbishop of Canterbury to wonder aloud in services as to whether someone could rid him of this meddlesome solicitor.

Of course, the "shot heard round the world" did not have to actually circumnavigate the globe.


But HMRC can probably prove Mission Presidents in the UK have knowingly and deliberately defrauded the Government of legitimate taxation on income.
(Although that doesn't seem to be within the remit of theses summonses).

_________________
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:59 am 
The Outcast

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 17063
Shiloh wrote:
I take a special kind of douche to blame others for your own choices.

Like someone claiming he only commits adultery with young girls and other men's wives because an angel with a sword appeared and threatened his life if he did not?

Like someone that on 5/26/1844 blamed the relief society for his troubles from extra-marital affairs?

Like blaming the Nauvoo Expositor for "lying" when it told the tales of his deeds done in secret and denied publicly?

A special kind of douche indeed.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:04 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 am
Posts: 13622
Location: On the imaginary axis
Bazooka wrote:
moksha wrote:
The suit is a sure loser from the point of view of actually expecting positive results. The fact that no religion can offer proof to metaphysical claims is obvious. I for one would not like to see the Archbishop of Canterbury to wonder aloud in services as to whether someone could rid him of this meddlesome solicitor.

Of course, the "shot heard round the world" did not have to actually circumnavigate the globe.


But HMRC can probably prove Mission Presidents in the UK have knowingly and deliberately defrauded the Government of legitimate taxation on income.
(Although that doesn't seem to be within the remit of theses summonses).


Anyone who wanted to see right done could use the information on this website:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/reportingfraud/

Particularly this one:

Do it online: tell HMRC about customs or excise fraud, or tax evasion

Quote:
Do it online: tell HMRC about customs or excise fraud, or tax evasion

You can complete a secure online form to tell HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) about customs or excise fraud or tax evasion. You don't have to give your name or address on the form, but letting HMRC have your details means they can make better and safer use of the information you give them.

Customs and excise fraud

Tax evasion

If you send information to HMRC by using the online form your message is secure, but the email reply to you, which will be sent over the internet, is not. Information sent by email over the internet is not secure and is at risk of being read by people other than those it was intended for. If you have provided your details, HMRC will reply to you by telephone or letter if their reply contains personal or sensitive information.

If you have any doubt about the authenticity of an email you receive which claims to have come from HMRC please do not follow any links within the email, disclose any personal details or respond to it.


I wonder if anyone has ever sent them a pdf of that very useful guidance given to Mission Presidents, which emphasises the precautions they should take to avoid having to pay any tax in the UK, despite all the valuable benefits provided to them and their dependents by the CoLCoLDS for the work they do?

_________________
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:08 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:37 pm
Posts: 1376
Mercury wrote:
My skepticism comes down to the fact that Tom is grandstanding. The lawsuit will be thrown out in short order. Ultimately the "surprise" was poorly managed and reads like the lawsuit from the Godmakers.

Well, time will tell. I'm just going to be patient and wait. I have to admit that when I first heard this was the "October Surprise", I was disappointed, but not angry. At least Tom Phillips is not afraid to put his name on something and is doing what he can to at least try to hold the church accountable. Maybe he tried to bring other lawsuits and they didn't pass the scrutiny or he couldn't get a magistrate to sign off on it. I don't know.

But, I'm not going to personally attack him for having courage. I posted a quote on another thread and it still sums up how I feel:

Quote:
I feel that Tom Phillips has been unfairly criticized by some for doing something "shoddy" or a "cheap shot" and I have not agreed with those kinds of comments. He has always impressed me as a person of substance and I think there is a lot more behind what he is doing than is obvious right now. I always find it interesting that the majority of people just sit around complaining or criticizing but take absolutely no definitive action. So, here we have a man...and I see him as very courageous...who has literally put everything on the line. After all, he lost his wife and family over his exit from Mormonism. Now, it appears he has also put a huge sum of money on the line and put himself out there personally...attached his name to all his actions...plus found a couple of brave friends who were willing to walk through the fire with him. I have to say that I totally admire him no matter how this plays out. I am really annoyed with some of the cheap shots that are being flung at his effort.


Mercury, you have every right to feel as you do. It was just puzzling to see the amount of bitterness and anger you have over this and I think people were just asking why.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: The 11:00 Surprise (the delay)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:39 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:15 am
Posts: 3058
Location: OreIda
Bazooka wrote:
But HMRC can probably prove Mission Presidents in the UK have knowingly and deliberately defrauded the Government of legitimate taxation on income.

(Although that doesn't seem to be within the remit of theses summonses).


This why I made the statement that this issue would not amount to anything more than PR and was only a pimple on a gnat's ass to the church, UNLESS the tax fraud issue moves to the forefront and has traction because the summons alone are not enough for court action in my opinion. Of course, there could be a lot that has not met the eye yet.

_________________
aka Pokatator joined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aristotle Smith, DarkHelmet and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group