It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:03 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1577 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 76  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:48 pm 
God

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:57 am
Posts: 2390
-


Last edited by Hasa Diga Eebowai on Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:48 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 4690
ludwigm wrote:
Shulem wrote:
Find out more. This is interesting. Could be a silver bullet.

Good work, Kishyboy.

:biggrin:

Paul O

Maybe a full magazine of an AK-47 would be enough. (30)

Image
.
BTW the site of this pic: http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2011/05/24 ... -part-3-2/


Jesus, your post finally posted! I went back and there it is lost in the beginning after everyone has read and moved on.

I rung Rock's phone and pleaded with him to posts my posts and he got them nailed within seconds. But the delay still lost my audience.

:cry:

Paul O

_________________
"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the "slave" is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed." (zerinus)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:50 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:02 pm
Posts: 5674
Nightlion wrote:
Holy Viagara Falls. Has it been more than four hours yet. Kish you better go see a physician. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyone who ever created a thing or two knows you can't go from nothing to something. I say the Lord provided Joseph Smith examples of Ancient Writing styles in his day to simmer on the back burner a bit lest he stumble over much when confronted with the language God was soon to provide him written on the stone in the hat.

I think the symphony of The Book of Mormon far exceeds the weak tones of these tomes.


Well, Ray is sure to back you up on this thinking. That should be comforting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:51 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 1484
Some nineteenth-century writers wrote in a pseudo-biblical style. This isn't exactly breaking news. Steve Smoot noted one recent discussion in a Mormon Interpreter article a few months back (see also, Shalev's American Zion).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:54 pm 
Regional Representative

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:10 pm
Posts: 642
Nevo wrote:
Some nineteenth-century writers wrote in a pseudo-biblical style. This isn't exactly breaking news. Steve Smoot noted one recent discussion in a Mormon Interpreter article a few months back (see also, Shalev's American Zion).



Did that one mention bands of 2000 chosen warriors? Or Striplings with weapons of war? Or curious workmanship? For example?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:56 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:36 pm
Posts: 10719
Location: Betwixt & Between
mms wrote:
Nevo wrote:
Some nineteenth-century writers wrote in a pseudo-biblical style. This isn't exactly breaking news. Steve Smoot noted one recent discussion in a Mormon Interpreter article a few months back (see also, Shalev's American Zion).



Did that one mention bands of 2000 chosen warriors? Or Striplings with weapons of war? Or curious workmanship? For example?


And that specific type of 'coincidence' seems to be driving the interest in this particular story.

_________________
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:00 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 6509
Location: Rivers of Russia
Nevo wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Where did all the critical thinkers on the board go?

Nevo,

The critical thinkers have just been advised of still more contemporary sources for the themes, linguistic style, etc. that appear in the Book of Mormon. Alone these would be interesting.

Piled on top of the mountain of existing scientific and historical evidence against the historicity of the Book of Mormon, my guess is that a lot of Shelves of Disbelief will finally be breaking.

Critical thinkers consider weight of evidence, the explanatory power of the competing hypotheses, and then check to make sure that the selected hypothesis does not require the violation of physical laws.

The 19th Century Fraud hypothesis passes all of these tests with an especially large advantage in weight of evidence, and that advantage that just got bigger.

The Divine Revelation hypothesis has absolutely nothing going for it at this point, except unfounded belief. And my guess is that such belief could be leaking away over the next days and months, at a faster rate than usual, as the poor Mormon apologists struggle with this latest hit (in a long, long series of hits).

_________________
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Last edited by DrW on Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:45 pm
Posts: 1558
Jarom 1:8


Quote:
 8 And we multiplied exceedingly, and spread upon the face of the land, and became exceedingly rich in agold, and in silver, and in precious things, and in fine workmanship of wood, in buildings, and in cmachinery, and also in iron and copper, and brass and steel, making all manner of tools of every kind to till the ground, and dweapons of war—yea, the sharp pointed arrow, and the quiver, and the dart, and the javelin, and all preparations for war.


Compare Chapter LIV verse 7

http://archive.org/stream/latewarbetwee ... 3/mode/2up

_________________
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:02 pm 
World's Top Zion Scientist
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 2:11 pm
Posts: 9443
Location: North Side of The Apocalrock
mms wrote:
Nevo wrote:
Some nineteenth-century writers wrote in a pseudo-biblical style. This isn't exactly breaking news. Steve Smoot noted one recent discussion in a Mormon Interpreter article a few months back (see also, Shalev's American Zion).



Did that one mention bands of 2000 chosen warriors? Or Striplings with weapons of war? Or curious workmanship? For example?



I suspect a backfire of the supposed 'smoking gun' when we compare authors. Young uneducated farmboy hickster against these others. Who were they? Let's compare and wonder how Joseph bettered them in his composition unaided by God supposedly. Sure.

And if Joseph was such a prolific genius where are his two dozen books? How could he have resisted but to bring forth the sealed portion of the plates? A serial, here a little and there a little. The money would have been vast. His poverty/vanity would have insisted upon it.....eh?

_________________
Vindicate Joseph Smith: BECOME ZION
http://apocalblog.blogspot.com/.

My YouTube videos:HERE
PDF Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology:HERE


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 4690
Themis wrote:
Nevo wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Where did all the critical thinkers on the board go?


It's just further evidence that the Book of Mormon has a 19th century origin. It fairly clear looking at other sources like Voth that the Book of Mormon story has the same kind of sources. The obvious apologetic will be for loose translation with Joseph just putting it all in his own words. Too bad loose translation just doesn't really fit the facts. We also KNOW Joseph did not get the Book of Abraham right. Should I pull a Shulem on you?


This business of a loose translation would have deeply offended Joseph Smith. He would have chastised anyone who belittled his translations as anything other than a gunuine direct revelation in converting one language into another.

The apologists are grasping at straws by claiming lose translation. That's about the same as just telling a story and not needing gold plates and not knowing how to read the first language to convert it into the second language.

Now consider the language of Facsimile No. 3. What's the king's name written in the writing as Joe Smith claimed? Is there a king's name? No, there is not. There is no king's name to translate either from the most tightest sense or the most loose. Neither is the name Shulem written in the writing whether loose or tight -- it ain't there. So, loose translation can bite my wire! The apologists lose!

Paul O

_________________
"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the "slave" is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed." (zerinus)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:04 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 pm
Posts: 6509
Location: Rivers of Russia
Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:
2 Nephi 5:15 wrote:
15 And I did teach my people to build buildings, and to work in all manner of wood, and of iron, and of copper, and of brass, and of steel, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious ores, which were in great abundance.


Ether 9: 17-19 wrote:
17 Having all manner of fruit, and of grain, and of silks, and of fine linen, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious things;
18 And also all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man.
19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.



Late War Chapter XX wrote:
11 Now the land of Columbia is a most plentiful land, yielding gold and silver, and brass and iron abundantly.
12 Likewise, all manner of creatures which are used for food, and herbs and fruits of the earth:
13 From the red cherry, and the rosy peach of the north, to the lemon, and the golden orange of the south.
14 And from the small insect, that cheateth the microscopic eye, to the huge mammoth that once moved on the borders of the river Hudson-; on the great river Ohio; and even down to the country of Patagonia in the south.
15 Now the heighth of a mammoth is about seven cubits and a half, and the length thereof fourteen cubits; and the bones thereof being weighed are more than thirty thousand shekels; and the length of the tusks is more than six cubits.
16 It is more wonderful than the elephant; and the history thereof, is it not recorded in the book of Jefferson, the scribe ?


Well done Kish, you effectively ended my lurking.

This really does look like a smoking gun.

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai


Hey Hasa,

Welcome back.

_________________
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:07 pm 
Has More Degrees Than Droopy
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 2684
Location: Cassius University: Ho Chi Minh Professor of American Military History
Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
13. And their weapons of war were of curious workmanship


Also Chp L - 7

"Now these steam-boats were cunningly contrived, and had abundance of curious workmanship therein, such as surpassed the comprehension of all the wise men of the east, from the beginning to this day.

Pg 193

_________________
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:13 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 17271
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Nevo wrote:
Some nineteenth-century writers wrote in a pseudo-biblical style. This isn't exactly breaking news. Steve Smoot noted one recent discussion in a Mormon Interpreter article a few months back (see also, Shalev's American Zion).


If that were "the news", it wouldn't be all that exciting. Thanks for implicitly admitting that you have no substantive response.


Saying that "some apologist once cited a work discussing pseudo-biblical language in the 19th century" isn't really addressing the similarities between these texts.

_________________
"He who sees only with the eyes of reason has no occasion for spectacles."~Vizir Rustan, The Magic Spectacles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:14 pm 
Has More Degrees Than Droopy
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 2684
Location: Cassius University: Ho Chi Minh Professor of American Military History
Off topic but the Star Spangled Banner appears as a footnote on pg 183-184. It would have been relatively new poem then; it was written in 1814 and wasn't made the national anthem until 1931.

_________________
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:16 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:02 pm
Posts: 5674
Kishkumen wrote:
If that were "the news", it wouldn't be all that exciting. Thanks for implicitly admitting that you have no substantive response.

Saying that "some apologist once cited a work discussing pseudo-biblical language in the 19th century" isn't really addressing the similarities between these texts.


Nothing to see here folks ... move along.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:16 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 17271
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Nevo wrote:
You guys are hilarious. Where did all the critical thinkers on the board go?


Wow, Nevo. Between this childish insult and the footnote comment, you're really flopping.

But you just had to say something, right? Elder Maxwell said, after all, "no uncontested slam dunks."

Thanks for the high praise.

_________________
"He who sees only with the eyes of reason has no occasion for spectacles."~Vizir Rustan, The Magic Spectacles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:25 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 1484
Kishkumen wrote:
Saying that "some apologist once cited a work discussing pseudo-biblical language in the 19th century" isn't really addressing the similarities between these texts.


The similarity I see is that both works are written in a biblical style. I don't see evidence of actual borrowing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:26 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 17271
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
DrW wrote:
The critical thinkers have just been advised of still more contemporary sources for the themes, linguistic style, etc. that appear in the Book of Mormon. Alone these would be interesting.

Piled on top of the mountain of existing scientific and historical evidence against the historicity of the Book of Mormon, my guess is that a lot of Shelves of Disbelief will finally be breaking.

Critical thinkers consider weight of evidence, the explanatory power of the competing hypotheses, and then check to make sure that the selected hypothesis is does not require the violation of physical laws.


Well, what with all of the articles Mopologists have failed to write on Hunt and The First Book of Napoleon, one wonders exactly what it is they have been up to all these years? Surely not reading and analyzing contemporary literature in a similar genre. What kind of critical thinker would do that?

Much better to spin kooky Mesoamerican theories about amazing invisible ancient civilizations in America.

That's real critical thinking for you.

_________________
"He who sees only with the eyes of reason has no occasion for spectacles."~Vizir Rustan, The Magic Spectacles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:28 pm 
God

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:57 am
Posts: 2390
-


Last edited by Hasa Diga Eebowai on Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:30 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:00 pm
Posts: 17271
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Nevo wrote:
The similarity I see is that both works are written in a biblical style. I don't see evidence of actual borrowing.



LOL! That's pretty weak sauce there, Nevo.

I am sure you don't see any borrowing.

:lol:

Or influence.

Or anything else worth noting.

_________________
"He who sees only with the eyes of reason has no occasion for spectacles."~Vizir Rustan, The Magic Spectacles


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:32 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:48 pm
Posts: 4690
Nevo wrote:
The similarity I see is that both works are written in a biblical style. I don't see evidence of actual borrowing.


You don't believe there is any evidence of borrowing so therefore you don't see it. You base your belief first and the evidence that challenges it second. That is very unscientific and illogical. I'm sure the Mormon cult welcomes you with open arms. You fit right in.

Paul O

_________________
"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the "slave" is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed." (zerinus)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1577 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 76  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cacheman, Yahoo [Bot] and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group