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I don't think this board's for me...
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Author:  Tal Bachman [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  I don't think this board's for me...

I have to hand it to Wade Englund.

Whether through sheer dumb instinct, or some profound genius, he is literally able to turn any discussion into an entirely different discussion - about how stupid he is or isn't.

The distraction tactics of course are a favourite of many Mormon apologists. "Dr. Peterson", in addition to the drama queen I'm a victim hissy fit schtick, seems to have a natural talent for either misunderstanding even the most straightforward points, or deliberately distorting them into something else so as to maintain that mental state in which Mormonism actually seems true, or rationally defensible; but I don't see how he can hold a candle to Wade. The master's ability to derail the inquiries of even the most sober-minded investigator of Mormonism, and of course myself as well at times, is really something.

Start out talking about the "retroactive" marriage between Joseph Smith and his teenaged housemaid Fanny, or irreconcilable contradictions in Mormon doctrine (a sure giveaway of untruthfulness), or any other matter, and with but a single Wadean post, the focus is no longer on the enterprising adulterer, but on Wade himself.

I myself spent quite a bit of time on Wade Englund on our interview thread of many months ago - and that was even after Wade himself ended up arguing, evidently with no sense of vulnerability, that he might actually not be conscious.

Perhaps this dynamic is inevitable. People who spend their entire lives without romantic intimacy in service to a transparently fraudulent cult, and who talk about how they might not actually be conscious, and who can so frequently, and with such apparent earnestness, so misunderstand things and say such incredibly asinine things, are a rare find. It would be like teaching a class in basic addition, and all of a sudden, up shoots a hand - and the person says, "Two plus two DOES NOT EQUAL FOUR, and I KNOW IT". How do you not stop and listen? How do you keep the lecture going? It's so shocking, so bizarre, so fascinating, so comical and yet tragic at the same time, that everything stops. AND - no doubt we'd even spend the rest of the hour debating the guy on whether, if you have two oranges and then get two more, you actually have four oranges.

So...it kind of seems like serious discussion with others is kind of impossible on here. Even I can hardly restrain myself from responding to the poor soul. The mixture of horror, bemusement, irritation, entertainment, and ultimately sympathy, is so potent, it's almost impossible to focus on anything else on a thread.

Yet, I do long to have substantive discussions, not even so much about Mormonism anymore, but almost about anything, that I suppose I ought to find some new place.

Best to all, perhaps I'll check in some time.

Tal

Author:  Blixa [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hi, Tal. Sorry I've been incommunicado. Lots going on. Catch up soon, hopefull

(You might find some discussions of substance (no, I'm not making a pot joke) on some webblogs here. So far mine's been "personal" but I'd like it to veer toward broader topics.)

Author:  Who Knows [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

You just made wade's day. He lives for that s***.

Author:  harmony [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I don't think this board's for me...

Tal Bachman wrote:
I have to hand it to Wade Englund.

Whether through sheer dumb instinct, or some profound genius, he is literally able to turn any discussion into an entirely different discussion - about how stupid he is or isn't.

The distraction tactics of course are a favourite of many Mormon apologists. "Dr. Peterson", in addition to the drama queen I'm a victim hissy fit schtick, seems to have a natural talent for either misunderstanding even the most straightforward points, or deliberately distorting them into something else so as to maintain that mental state in which Mormonism actually seems true, or rationally defensible; but I don't see how he can hold a candle to Wade. The master's ability to derail the inquiries of even the most sober-minded investigator of Mormonism, and of course myself as well at times, is really something.

Start out talking about the "retroactive" marriage between Joseph Smith and his teenaged housemaid Fanny, or irreconcilable contradictions in Mormon doctrine (a sure giveaway of untruthfulness), or any other matter, and with but a single Wadean post, the focus is no longer on the enterprising adulterer, but on Wade himself.

I myself spent quite a bit of time on Wade Englund on our interview thread of many months ago - and that was even after Wade himself ended up arguing, evidently with no sense of vulnerability, that he might actually not be conscious.

Perhaps this dynamic is inevitable. People who spend their entire lives without romantic intimacy in service to a transparently fraudulent cult, and who talk about how they might not actually be conscious, and who can so frequently, and with such apparent earnestness, so misunderstand things and say such incredibly asinine things, are a rare find. It would be like teaching a class in basic addition, and all of a sudden, up shoots a hand - and the person says, "Two plus two DOES NOT EQUAL FOUR, and I KNOW IT". How do you not stop and listen? How do you keep the lecture going? It's so shocking, so bizarre, so fascinating, so comical and yet tragic at the same time, that everything stops. AND - no doubt we'd even spend the rest of the hour debating the guy on whether, if you have two oranges and then get two more, you actually have four oranges.

So...it kind of seems like serious discussion with others is kind of impossible on here. Even I can hardly restrain myself from responding to the poor soul. The mixture of horror, bemusement, irritation, entertainment, and ultimately sympathy, is so potent, it's almost impossible to focus on anything else on a thread.

Yet, I do long to have substantive discussions, not even so much about Mormonism anymore, but almost about anything, that I suppose I ought to find some new place.

Best to all, perhaps I'll check in some time.

Tal


Balderdash. Pure and utter balderdash. It's entirely possible to engage the rest of this forum without engaging Wade. I've done it for years, so it can't be that hard. Simply refuse to answer him, refuse to engage, and never allow yourself to be pulled into the unending rabbit hole that his posts represent.

But by all means, leave if it makes you feel more superior to the rest of us poor schticks who understand the place this board plays in the Mormon world. I suggest the new LDSforums. Daniel is there, as are many others who you've tangled with on MAD and on here. When you decide what you really want (whether it's the opportunity to poke holes in Daniel's ego, deep discussion about things Mormon with both sides of any issue, or light banter with no hint of depth at all), then you'll know which board, if any, you belong on.

Author:  The Dude [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah Tal. Don't let Wade be the reason you leave. Heaven forbid, don't leave us because you were offended by somebody. The board is perfect but the members aren't. ;)

Author:  The Nehor [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

If you don't wish to discuss Mormonism you might consider switching to a board without Mormon in the name.

Author:  Tal Bachman [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well that was brilliant, Nehor. Unreal.

Dude - it isn't just because of Wade; and of course I could ignore him. But it's awfully tough, and obviously, it's very tough for lots of others, and that's really the problem - all of us. We can't ignore the guy who keeps saying, "two plus two doesn't really equal four!"; and a lot of the threads which have topics I'm interested in turn into a trip to "WadeLand", and I don't know...I know I sound impatient or petty, but I just can't stomach it. It's too irritating and just....like...not what I really want. I want hardcore meat, not more asylum jibber-jabber, or making fun of the r____ kid or something...after all, Wade probably doesn't have a malicious bone in his body anyway. How could he with arguments like his? At their best, they sound almost cute.

And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Is there some better board, Dude?


Author:  Calculus Crusader [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well, Tal, there is Folk of the Fringe or there is the LDS subforum at the MB formerly known as Christian Forums.

Author:  asbestosman [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tal Bachman wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron,

I seem to have moved up in the world. Now I'm finally a complete moron whereas previously others claimed that I had a few parts missing.

Author:  Yong Xi [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:46 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tal Bachman wrote:
Well that was brilliant, Nehor. Unreal.

Dude - it isn't just because of Wade; and of course I could ignore him. But it's awfully tough, and obviously, it's very tough for lots of others, and that's really the problem - all of us. We can't ignore the guy who keeps saying, "two plus two doesn't really equal four!"; and a lot of the threads which have topics I'm interested in turn into a trip to "WadeLand", and I don't know...I know I sound impatient or petty, but I just can't stomach it. It's too irritating and just....like...not what I really want. I want hardcore meat, not more asylum jibber-jabber, or making fun of the r____ kid or something...after all, Wade probably doesn't have a malicious bone in his body anyway. How could he with arguments like his? At their best, they sound almost cute.

And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Is there some better board, Dude?



What Mormon posters would you prefer? Isn't it a fact that even the most educated, well read and reasoned LDS poster is going to sound silly much of the time to a non-believer? They still believe the BofA to be inspired, revelation through magic rocks, and undiscovered Nephite archaeology. The sophisticated LDS just seem to have more ways of arguing in favor of obvious falsehoods.

Author:  Jersey Girl [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tal Bachman wrote:

And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Is there some better board, Dude?



You don't sound like a total whiner, Tal. In the above, you sound like a complete and total arrogant ass.

With all due respect,

Jersey Girl

Author:  Polygamy Porter [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tal,

Get back to doing what you do best. Making music. C'mon man!

by the way, I still do not see your recent CD on iTunes. The cult of Mac does not allow me to buy music any other way.

Author:  Yoda [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Jersey Girl wrote:
Tal Bachman wrote:

And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Is there some better board, Dude?



You don't sound like a total whiner, Tal. In the above, you sound like a complete and total arrogant ass.

With all due respect,

Jersey Girl


Agreed.

Author:  William Schryver [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Talibachman:

Quote:
And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Charming.

Quote:
Is there some better board, Dude?

Although they can’t hardly measure up to your level of native intelligence, breadth and depth of knowledge of the various subject matters, and attainment of higher education, people like Dan Vogel, Brent Metcalfe, The Dude, Dale Broadhurst, David Anderson (Addictio), Christopher Smith, and many others of a similar critical persuasion have managed to engage in relatively intelligent discussions on the MAD board.

I know you tried it for a while, but I imagine it didn’t satisfy your burning hunger for “hardcore meat,” whatever that is.

Author:  Runtu [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 

You know, I don't often agree with a lot of our LDS posters here, but I like them (most of the time, anyway). There's no need for this kind of drive-by insult. Maybe this board isn't for you, as you said. Too bad. I respect you and almost always enjoy reading what you post. Not this time, though.

Author:  moksha [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 

liz3564 wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Tal Bachman wrote:

And since I already sound like a total whiner, I might as well say that I don't think I've ever seen one single Mormon poster on here who didn't sound like a complete moron, with the semi-exception of Coggins7, who at least seems to have gotten to the point of pseudo-clarity right before it all starts to unravel. Gazelam seems nice, but you can't get anything more out of him than you could get out of any "keener" teacher's quorum president.

Is there some better board, Dude?



You don't sound like a total whiner, Tal. In the above, you sound like a complete and total arrogant ass.

With all due respect,

Jersey Girl


Agreed.


Maybe a more philosophical type of discussion board would provide the clarity you are seeking or perhaps a slam dance type
of board could be more challenging, since we Mormon posters sound like complete morons. Good luck in seeking out your
substantive discussion arena.

Author:  Scottie [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

I have to agree, Runtu.

So this board isn't for you? Then go! Why do you have to drag someones name through the mud first?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see Wade as this intellectual black hole that sucks the intelligence out of every subject he touches. Perhaps that speaks to my intellectual level, as it surely isn't anywhere near Tal's (or anyone else on this board, I suppose). I guess you can throw me into the "r____" category as well, Tal, because I find many of Wade's posts thought provoking.

Author:  marg [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I don't think this board's for me...

Tal Bachman wrote:
Yet, I do long to have substantive discussions, not even so much about Mormonism anymore, but almost about anything, that I suppose I ought to find some new place.

Best to all, perhaps I'll check in some time.

Tal


Well when you go off to grad school, you'll have lots of stimulating ideas to think about. This board is very insignificant in the scheme of things, which relate to religion. If anyone on here should change their thinking or beliefs it will likely be due to a slow evolving process rather than any one particular discussion. And this MB is not very conducive for intimate discussions between 2 parties which can more easily stay focussed on primary issues. A threaded style forum enables that option. I personally have enjoyed seeing the evolution of your thinking to the present clear-thinking rational state.

by the way, I was going to add to that knowledge thread in the celestial forum, in particular to Gad but I got sidetracked. I still do plan to go back to it. You wrote some interesting stuff in there.

Author:  huckelberry [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 

What a bizarre Wade obsession. After all Wade, like a lot of people is neither all good or all bad.

Author:  The Nehor [ Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Tal Bachman wrote:
Well that was brilliant, Nehor. Unreal.


I R SMRT

Author:  Inconceivable [ Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Tap tap tap.. testing 1,2,3

Well Tal,

I guess I respected you because I didn't know you that well? ..Or did you just have a painfully stressed day like I did?

I left a friendly message on a client's phone while driving in heavy freeway traffic today. Right about the time I'm saying, adieu, some clown nearly punches my ticket and I spew a tie raid of flotsam (f-bombs etc) into my bluetooth. oop.

Tal, did you know your mic is on??

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