Who is "we"?

[_Southern Redneck]

Now that the welcomes are mostly over, lets start doing what the boards name imply. Discussion on the subject at hand.

I posted this on my blog and figured to share it here.

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"We missed you at church". You've all heard it in one version or another. That kind, and so so hollow phrase.

My families HT came by last Sunday. I like the guy. We talk guns, and that's about it. This was his first visit as our new assigned friend Home teacher. He didn't give a lesson, but said it was a "get to know you" visit.

Light conversation was the fare for the evening, and for the most part it was pleasent.

Then he said it.

"Is everything ok? We missed you at church today".

We! Is this a royal "we"? A group "we"? Maybe just him and his wife is the "we". Maybe it was the little piggy who went "weee! weee! weee!" all the way home.

That phrase has always befuddled me. How do you miss someone you don't know. In a standard ward you know a group, and even know closely a few. But for the most part, you don't get to know most of them.

So if one of these people do not go, how do you "miss" them? Ever go up to a guy who misses a day of work and say "Hey Bob. We really missed you yesterday. Is everything ok?".

I have been one time since just before Easter. ONCE! I think it was in May. My wife was singing in the "choir"(imagine me doing the quotation marks with my fingers there). Otherwise my attendence has been perfect...ly bad. To my delight.

That phrase "we missed you" never did set good in me. I never said it, and never will.

[_Gazelam]

Red,

Theres an undertone to your posts I'd like to address.

I know where your at, because I've been there. The church asks you to act a certain way, and to do things that are time consuming and that stretch you out of your comfort zone. Who wants to spend their day off work spending three hours in church right? And who wants to go visit someone in their home that you don't know all that well and ask them to step out of THEIR comfort zone?

Do one thing for me. Spend a week living the way you've been asked to, just one week. Say your prayers like your supposed to. Read your scriptures each day. Lets try the Book of ALMA chp. 9-14. Just a chapter a day, and on Sunday write about what youve read, do a book report. Ignore your wifes prodding about it, and just carry on through. And on sunday, attend all your meetings and partake of the sacrament.

Your attitude will change when the Holy Ghost returns to you. Follow his guidance, and don't look back.

All the best,

Gaz

[_MormonMendacity]

Now that the welcomes are mostly over, lets start doing what the boards name imply. Discussion on the subject at hand.

I posted this on my blog and figured to share it here.

--------------
"We missed you at church". You've all heard it in one version or another. That kind, and so so hollow phrase.

My families HT came by last Sunday. I like the guy. We talk guns, and that's about it. This was his first visit as our new assigned friend Home teacher. He didn't give a lesson, but said it was a "get to know you" visit.

Light conversation was the fare for the evening, and for the most part it was pleasent.

Then he said it.

"Is everything ok? We missed you at church today".

We! Is this a royal "we"? A group "we"? Maybe just him and his wife is the "we". Maybe it was the little piggy who went "weee! weee! weee!" all the way home.

That phrase has always befuddled me. How do you miss someone you don't know. In a standard ward you know a group, and even know closely a few. But for the most part, you don't get to know most of them.

So if one of these people do not go, how do you "miss" them? Ever go up to a guy who misses a day of work and say "Hey Bob. We really missed you yesterday. Is everything ok?".

I have been one time since just before Easter. ONCE! I think it was in May. My wife was singing in the "choir"(imagine me doing the quotation marks with my fingers there). Otherwise my attendence has been perfect...ly bad. To my delight.

That phrase "we missed you" never did set good in me. I never said it, and never will.

SR -- Sorry I missed this post the first time...but it struck a chord with me. It reminded me of when my obligatory home teacher, who was a very nice neighbor in Orem, told me he wondered where I'd been in four or five months. (I was consulting in NY at the time.) I was fine with that. We enjoyed talking about different things but it was not a close relationship mainly because my 15 year old son was hot after his 14 year old daughter and there was some friction there between our wives. We both knew that.

But he then told me that my name had come up in a meeting (Ward Correlation or HP group? I can't remember now which...) and then out of the blue said, "We'd like to have you go camping with us sometime."

I KNOW I looked shocked and I could tell even he was a little surprised. Kind of out of nowhere.

Well, considering the whole kid-relationship issues, I knew THAT wasn't going to go anywhere...but how insincere of the people who goaded him into that question. Get close to Br. So-n-so...maybe take him camping.

Whatever.

Do one thing for me. Spend a week living the way you've been asked to, just one week. Say your prayers like your supposed to. Read your scriptures each day. Lets try the Book of ALMA chp. 9-14. Just a chapter a day, and on Sunday write about what youve read, do a book report. Ignore your wifes prodding about it, and just carry on through. And on sunday, attend all your meetings and partake of the sacrament.

Your attitude will change when the Holy Ghost returns to you. Follow his guidance, and don't look back.

Gaz, it just doesn't work like that. What you're suggesting is that he engage in self-hypnosis. "Do what you're told over and over and over again and eventually you'll feel it's right."

We've done that...at least I know I have...and sometimes the answer for people who are actually trying to figure it out is "The Church is false."

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

I have been thinking about that question Who is WE

I think they are the same as Who are THEY


WE and THEY are always right and always miss US and THEM

[_Southern Redneck]

I did not address this replu gaz because it was a sad attempt to hit most of the cliches out there.

Red,

Theres an undertone to your posts I'd like to address.

I know where your at, because I've been there The church asks you to act a certain way, and to do things that are time consuming and that stretch you out of your comfort zone.

cliché one.. SR is lazy and that makes him uncomfortable at church

Do one thing for me. Spend a week living the way you've been asked to, just one week. Say your prayers like your supposed to. Read your scriptures each day. Lets try the Book of ALMA chp. 9-14. Just a chapter a day, and on Sunday write about what youve read, do a book report.

cliché two. Pray and read the Book of Mormon.

Ignore your wifes prodding about it, and just carry on through. And on sunday, attend all your meetings and partake of the sacrament.

cliché three. go to church for the spirit.

Your attitude will change when the Holy Ghost returns to you. Follow his guidance, and don't look back.

cliché four. let the spirit guide you


You may have been sincere, but understand that you hit almost every cliché used by ward and branch leader I have ever talked to. That pretty much negated everything you said.

But I'm not here to attack.

You answered honestly and I will reply. The standard actions you listed above normally would work for those that have a weak testimony. For those who are OUT, it pushes them away.

Thanks for your words, but the time to strengthen my testimony has long passed. Why. Because Moroni's promise never worked for me. No fuzzies, no nothing. I did the motions out of obligation, not faith, and found that not doing them makes it much easier to find the divine.

[_Gazelam]

Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Are these all cliches? This is the pattern of salvation set up from the beginning of all creation. The simple things I ask you to do are the introductory actions of those seeking to know the truth about God.

I would urge you, that if it feels like your prayers are unanswered, to weary the Lord with your prayers until you are answered. You are entitled by right of birth to receive revelation from God. Volumes of scripture testify to the fact that God answers prayers. I testify that God answers prayers. Weary God with your prayers until he answers you. Show real intent and real desire, show him that you wont consume the answer with simple lust, but that you really want to know.

He will answer you.


Gaz

[_Southern Redneck]

Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Are these all cliches?

I never said THEY were cliches, I said what YOU wrote was a standard set of church inspired cliches.

Faith is very important and I work on it daily. Faith in the divine.

Repentance is so very important. I have talked to God about my problems in prayer and work on becoming a better person.

Baptism is important biblically. seperating what the church taught me and what the Bible says is truely enjoyable.

Receiving the gift of the holyg host. Now if you are implying the need for a bunch of LDS guys to give it to me just forget it. The church does not hold God or the holy ghost hostage.

This is the pattern of salvation set up from the beginning of all creation. The simple things I ask you to do are the introductory actions of those seeking to know the truth about God.

I am following a path of simple faith inspiring acts that will lead me to a knowledge of the divine, not the church.

You work on the assumption that the only way to God is the church. If you step back you will find that path a rocky one.

I said the following

Thanks for your words, but the time to strengthen my testimony has long passed. Why. Because Moroni's promise never worked for me. No fuzzies, no nothing. I did the motions out of obligation, not faith, and found that not doing them makes it much easier to find the divine.

I have faith. I have faith in God. I have no faith in a man made structure that holds God hostage for the power of the brethren,.