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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:15 am 
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Blixa wrote:
What a pearl-clutching embarrassment.


No kidding. I read the whole damned article, but I should have stuck with Scratch's succinct and spot-on summary. Not an auspicious beginning for the "Interpreter."

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:09 am 
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Midgley wrote:
One reason for not wanting to be known as a religion is that, in the United States, if secular humanism is seen as a religion, then it could face big trouble in the courts because of the First Amendment.

Struggling to phrase my question in a way that is permitted in the Terrestrial Forum, all I want to ask is this: what in heck is he talking about? He's suggesting that if secular humanism is a religion, it will be in "big trouble" because Congress can't make any laws respecting its establishment or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?

Does he think humanists will be in big trouble if Congress doesn't make laws respecting the establishment of secular humanism?

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:16 am 
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
Blixa wrote:
What a pearl-clutching embarrassment.


No kidding. I read the whole damned article, but I should have stuck with Scratch's succinct and spot-on summary. Not an auspicious beginning for the "Interpreter."

A legitimate complaint against various FARMS reviews was that it nitpicked at insignificant details rather than addressed the big issues. I was afraid that Scratch was doing the same thing here. But he wasn’t—this article is bad . In terms of simply making cohesive arguments, it wouldn’t deserve a passing grade in an undergraduate course.

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"It is of course theoretically possible for government to create wealth."

-Dr. Thomas Sowell
from an email exchange with Louis DeBroux:
http://kudzumollymormon.blogspot.com/20 ... rsary.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:46 am 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
MI Midlgely wrote:
Her blogs [...] strike me as a bit raunchy and as lacking intellectual content.
Midgley AML wrote:
Her blogs [...] strike me as lacking intellectual content, and a bit raunchy.

trendline:
Image lacking intellectual content
Image raunchy


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:54 am 
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palerobber wrote:
trendline:
Image lacking intellectual content
Image raunchy


Her blog is a personal blog without pretensions to "intellectual content," though her insightful posts are a hell of a lot more intellectually solid that Midgley's s****y post.

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:12 am 
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Analytics wrote:
A legitimate complaint against various FARMS reviews was that it nitpicked at insignificant details rather than addressed the big issues. I was afraid that Scratch was doing the same thing here. But he wasn’t—this article is bad . In terms of simply making cohesive arguments, it wouldn’t deserve a passing grade in an undergraduate course.


I agree completely. When I first saw Scratch's post I also thought that he must be engaging in some of the same tactics that he criticizes, but this article really is atrocious. I strongly disliked his review of Grant Palmer's book, but I don't recall it being as poorly written as this (although it has been a long time since I read it). The line highlighted by Darth J is asininely stupid. A political science professor should know better than to say something that sounds more like an ignorant rant from the lunatic fringe of the religious right.

We should also remember that this is the guy who recently accused John Dehlin of somehow being involved in the accidental drowning deaths of two missionaries. I guess it just goes to show you that you can only let hatred consume you for so long before it poisons your soul . . .


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:33 pm 
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it's weird that when he's describing atheists of old, it sounds exactly like my own world view.
Midge wrote:
The conclusion is that one need not fear death, for it is ultimate liberation from this miserable world. While struggling to avoid pain, one need not be set upon by false notions of divine beings who have even more pain planned for disobedient mortals after their miserable deaths.

what a lovely summary.

the only thing missing is the belief that humans can make both the world and our own deaths less miserable. and for that we atheists must unavoidably look to our hero and leader Karl Marx, because no one else in history has ever suggested any ideas on how to materially improve the human condition.


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Now that Daniel isn't being paid to act as editor, and he doesn't have a paid staff, the quality of the classic-FARMS output is suffering.

You would almost think these are posts on a discussion board, if it weren't for the length.

ETA: That Robert M. Price article is a real gem. It should be required reading for any student of Joseph Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Now that Daniel isn't being paid to act as editor, and he doesn't have a paid staff, the quality of the classic-FARMS output is suffering.

You would almost think these are posts on a discussion board, if it weren't for the length.


You know, Reverend, I wouldn't have thought to bring the money issue into the picture, but I suppose you're right. "If you're good at something, never do it for free." Or, rather, "If you have to do something for free, do a half-assed job."

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Doctor Scratch wrote:
You know, Reverend, I wouldn't have thought to bring the money issue into the picture, but I suppose you're right. "If you're good at something, never do it for free." Or, rather, "If you have to do something for free, do a half-assed job."


The lack of money just means that their copyediting is now of the same quality as the "scholarship."

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:06 am 
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Bob Loblaw wrote:
The lack of money just means that their copyediting is now of the same quality as the "scholarship."


Well, David Bokovoy's article was good, I thought. It may turn out to be the best piece the Interpreter ever publishes!

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:26 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Well, David Bokovoy's article was good, I thought. It may turn out to be the best piece the Interpreter ever publishes!


True, it was good. Maybe he set a standard they can't meet.

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"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:59 am 
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Darth J wrote:
...
And none of us would want to be callow, so we better acknowledge that any grouping of people, either by common traits or by their association with each other, is equivalent to a church.

The NRA, the National Geographic Society, your local community theater, that book club you're in, the Federalist Society, the Rotary Club, the AAA, and fantasy football leagues are all churches, too.

Not only are they churches, but are they not, by definition, part of the Great and Abominable Church.

Someone should tell them - so that they can update their logos, letterhead, websites, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:18 am 
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Guess who...


Quote:
I have to say that even I have been thrilled, and sometimes moved, by the enthusiasm and energy of those who have made this new journal possible, and who have accomplished it with such speed. Remarkable people have signed on to help. Interpreter is well-produced, technically savvy, peer-reviewed, and, already, graced with fascinating, substantial articles. It’s paginated and typeset like a print publication, and is readily available for print-on-demand.

As much as possible, we’re making all of this available for free. But there are inescapable expenses, and we have very little money. So we intend to commence a fundraising campaign as soon as we’re in a position to do so. We’ve flourished thus far in Interpreter’s brief but vigorous life on the basis of volunteer labor, but we know that we can’t expect people to work long hours for free forever.

Nevertheless, this effort continues to grow and develop. Our goal is to post at least one article, review, or note each week—and perhaps more. We’re in the process of setting up a tax-exempt legal entity, The Interpreter Foundation, to sponsor the journal, and we’ve already produced podcasts and audio discussions, undertaken to co-sponsor a conference on the temple www.mormoninterpreter.com , and created a blog.

This is an exciting project.


http://ldsmag.com/article/1/11431

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:27 am 
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palerobber wrote:
Midge wrote:
The conclusion is that one need not fear death, for it is ultimate liberation from this miserable world. While struggling to avoid pain, one need not be set upon by false notions of divine beings who have even more pain planned for disobedient mortals after their miserable deaths.

what a lovely summary.

That quote is spot-on Midgley. I became acquainted with Lou around 30 years ago. He came across as a lunatic even then (and he's only gotten worse with age, imo). I'm amazed someone would publish his tripe, but I guess today's Mormon apologia is in such disarray that the standard is low enough for even Lou to crawl over.

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:36 am 
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Allegedly 'Mormon Interpreter' is running it's own equivalent of a 'Raising The Bar' programme. It's called 'Finding The Bar'.

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:08 am 
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Drifting wrote:
Allegedly 'Mormon Interpreter' is running it's own equivalent of a 'Raising The Bar' programme. It's called 'Finding The Bar'.


More like "Who cares about a bar?"

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:22 am 
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Hi guys -- thanks for the interesting analysis! I think this may be the first time a Mormon apologist has written an article in a peer-reviewed journal about how "raunchy and lacking intellectual content" my blog is -- and without someone pointing me to this thread, I might never have noticed!

I just wrote a post for MSP about it here. It includes a link to the full text of my article from FI.

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:32 am 
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chanson wrote:
Hi guys -- thanks for the interesting analysis! I think this may be the first time a Mormon apologist has written an article in a peer-reviewed journal about how "raunchy and lacking intellectual content" my blog is -- and without someone pointing me to this thread, I might never have noticed!

I just wrote a post for MSP about it here. It includes a link to the full text of my article from FI.


Loved your response, and thanks for the mention.

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"¡No contaban con mi astucia!" -- El Chapulin Colorado


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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:48 am 
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chanson wrote:
Hi guys -- thanks for the interesting analysis! I think this may be the first time a Mormon apologist has written an article in a peer-reviewed journal about how "raunchy and lacking intellectual content" my blog is -- and without someone pointing me to this thread, I might never have noticed!

I just wrote a post for MSP about it here. It includes a link to the full text of my article from FI.


Thanks for the link and I enjoyed reading your response. I just have one question.
Which "peer-reviewed" journal picked up and published the Midgley article from "Mormon Interpreter"? :confused:

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 Post subject: Re: The Downward Spiral Continues at "Mormon Interpreter"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:58 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
Thanks for the link and I enjoyed reading your response. I just have one question.
Which "peer-reviewed" journal picked up and published the Midgley article from "Mormon Interpreter"? :confused:


Drifting, above, quoted an LDS magazine as claiming that the "Mormon Interpreter" is peer-reviewed. I don't know if it really is or not.

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